7 skills you may not have learned in medical training

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills

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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.

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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find

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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research

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program.

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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.

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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians

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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.

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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.

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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.

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I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you

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today.

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Thank you so much for tuning in.

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I want to give a shout out to those who are suffering from the ravages of the storm that

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came through this weekend.

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I hope that you are alive and healthy and well and safe, and for those who have had

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damage from the storms or have had any loss of property or family, I just want to let

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you know that I'm sending you my well wishes and hoping for a good outcome for all that

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has happened.

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So I want to thank everyone for listening.

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Thank you all for tuning in today.

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Today I want to talk about the things that we can't make excuses about.

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And I have to say, as I say the title of the podcast episode, I think, hmm, will this be

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the final version?

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I'm not sure.

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But the reason I have this particular episode in mind is because I just came back from a

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conference and it was a non...well, I can't say it was a non-medical conference because

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it really was for women physicians specifically.

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And it was the Wealthy You conference that was hosted by Dr. Latifat Akintade of MoneyFitMD.

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And it was a gathering in Atlanta, well, at least close to Atlanta, and it really was

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a weekend really focused on topics and issues regarding building wealth.

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And what was awesome is that we didn't just talk about building wealth financially.

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We talked about the importance of building wealth socially, relationally, and through

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the kind of life that we live.

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And so she talked about three, actually four kinds of assets.

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One, you know, we all think about the fact that we should buy assets and assets put money

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in your pocket if you remember, or it's dad, poor dad versus liabilities, right?

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So buying assets is important.

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But what Latifat talked about was the importance of being an asset, recognizing that you are

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the asset, right?

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You're the income generating asset and how important it is to protect that asset that

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is you.

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And then the other thing is building a life that is an asset and then creating assets

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as well.

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So while I think a lot of people focus on wealth building as buying assets, it really

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is important to think of yourself first as the asset and then the life you're living

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or the life you're creating as the asset and the opportunities you have to create assets.

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So it's a really, really powerful experience.

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But what it led me to think about, because I'm not really talking about finances today,

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is I think about all the things we didn't learn in medical school or in residency or

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fellowship training.

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So for many of us who went through the process, we will hear said over and over again that

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we were not taught about the business side of medicine.

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On this podcast, I talk a lot about how we are really not exposed to research.

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And so what is the expectation that you're going to succeed as a researcher where you

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have not actually had the research training and now in your life you're not given the

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space to learn the research skills?

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And one thing I'm discovering, especially as I'm expanding my horizons, is that, wow,

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we are not taught very much else as clinicians.

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Okay, let's just respect our training here and respect the fact that we are taught to

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be excellent clinicians.

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And I have to say that by the time we are done with our training, we are pretty good.

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And I know it can't be universal because everybody, you know, we have different challenges in

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different spaces.

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But let's just say we learn a lot.

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And at the very end of our training, we are so focused on, so focused on clinical work

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that we really haven't learned much else.

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If we're going to own our own practices, we haven't learned to run those practices.

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If we're going to do research, we haven't learned to, you know, lead those research

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teams.

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If we're going to do anything else besides doctoring, wow, we haven't learned very much.

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And this is not for judgment.

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It is not for shame.

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It's just to say that, wow, learning clinical medicine, learning how to care for patients

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is time-intensive, and it really sucks up everything.

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And so for those of us who came to medicine after another career, we realized that there

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was so much more to life beyond medicine, right?

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Actually all of us came to medicine from a different career.

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Maybe we were students and we came to medicine.

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I know that we were students, continuing to be students while we were in medicine, but

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it was a different trajectory, right?

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So if your friends had summers, you did not.

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Your colleagues started earning money very early, you did not.

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So definitely there's like, you know, you go in a different direction in medical school

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that you were not in or a direction you were not going in when you started.

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And so clearly for many of us, we came to medicine as full-grown adults.

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And even though we didn't have a career, we at least had a full life before we came to

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medicine.

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And then we go into medicine and it feels as if medicine just sucks up everything.

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Clinical medicine does at least.

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And if we are going to have any meaningful experiences outside of clinical medicine,

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wow, we have to give time, energy, and attention to these things.

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And that is what I'm here to talk about today.

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The importance of broadening our horizons so that we are not just very focused, so focused

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on clinical medicine.

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Okay.

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I'm going to talk today about seven areas in which you really do need to broaden your

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focus and not just be focused on clinical medicine.

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And I think this is so important because we are taking advantage of sometimes in many

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arenas because of lack of knowledge.

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And unfortunately, many times we're so busy and it's like, well, I'm too busy.

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Can you take care of that for me?

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And that would be okay if the people we're asking to take care of things for us are trustworthy

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or have our best interests at heart.

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But many times, let's just say it's not that they're malicious.

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It's just that nobody cares about our business like we care about our business.

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So I just want to talk about seven places in which we could absolutely expand our experience.

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And perhaps I'll talk a little bit about how you might do that.

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So the very first thing I'm going to talk about obviously is research.

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So this is the Clinician Researcher podcast, right?

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And so I'm very big on research.

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I also recognize that when I say research, I do mean research and it could be basic science

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research or health services research or clinical research.

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There's so many options, qualitative research.

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But what I'm talking about really is the bigger focus of scholarship and the importance of

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scholarship as clinicians, right?

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And in reality, sometimes we're so focused on our work clinically that there isn't room

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for scholarship of any kind.

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And it is a problem.

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And I know, I know, just hear me out.

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Don't judge me just yet.

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It's a problem because if all we're doing is focused on doing, the reality is that the

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data, the evidence for the work we're doing is changing.

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And if we are not paying attention, then the evidence is moving forward while our clinical

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practice is staying the same.

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And so scholarship is important, not just to the extent to which we contribute to scholarship,

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and that's important as well, because in contributing, we have to apply ourselves to understand more,

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but also in consuming scholarship as well.

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And honestly, for those of us who try to get CMEs completed at the end of the year, if

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we're not doing it consistently throughout the year, you realize that sometimes it's

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just you're scrambling to get the education in.

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And what's realistic is to get the education in routinely as part of your normal practice.

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And so if you're looking up data routinely as part of your constant practice, that is

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a form of scholarship that helps advance you.

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It helps you take better care of your patients because you're keeping track of the evidence.

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So that's like, to me, the bare minimum of involvement in scholarship is that you are

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at least learning enough to keep your practice moving forward with the current data, the

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current evidence.

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So that's kind of, I think, the bare minimum.

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And then all the way to the other extreme is where research is really the major part

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of your practice.

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And I recommend that because research is a full-time job.

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And to be honest, anything short of full-time research is part-time research.

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And you know how you do on a part-time job, you make a part-time income.

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So it's that if you really want a fully-fledged research program, it is hard to get there

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on a part-time schedule, especially if you've not really had the training and research as

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your PhD colleagues.

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And so if you're going to be someone who's going to be leading in research, leading in

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scholarship, you do need to create space for it.

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And the very beginning of that is learning research methodology, partnering with people

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who have the research methodology expertise so that you can bring your clinical expertise

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and add synergy to the team.

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And so for those of us who are pursuing this track as research scientists, in addition

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to being clinicians, it is an ongoing struggle to grow the skills that you really didn't

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learn in your clinical training.

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And it's important to be strategic about learning what you need, but also partnering with those

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who already have the knowledge but are looking for a clinical partner in their research endeavors.

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Now, you have to be careful because it depends on what you want to do.

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If you want to lead a research program, then you have to really gather the skills for leadership.

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If you're just looking to participate, oh, there are so many people who would love to

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have you participate in one way or the other, but you do want to have enough knowledge so

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you can be a full-fledged participant really contributing significantly.

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Okay.

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So the first thing that I think is important for clinicians to use to broaden their scope

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beyond just their clinical work is research.

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Okay.

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Number two is finances.

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So yes, I did talk about coming from a financial conference, and so finances are pretty much

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top of mind right now.

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And I have to say that I'm speaking, again, in general about finances.

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And so I hope that we learn to manage money before we went into medical school.

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For many of us, though, we didn't really know very much, right, because we went through

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education to the next...one educational level to the next educational level.

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And for many of us, we didn't even really have a chance to have a job.

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Now if you went straight through medical school and you supported your medical school with

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loans, then you were probably also taking up loans to pay for medical school.

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And maybe you had some financial training at the time, but probably not, because it's

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not part of our clinical training.

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And yeah, people are willing to borrow you a lot of money, but not necessarily give you

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the tools to manage that money wisely.

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And so here we are on the other side of our training, and we do need to know how to manage

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finances.

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We need to know how to manage finances if we need a clinical unit.

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And so yes, we might have an MBA who is working with us to be able to manage the financial

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unit, but it is so important for us to be educated as well.

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And so I know physicians who've gone on and got MBAs or who've gone on and done some additional

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financial certification, and that's great.

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But whatever you do, you need financial knowledge.

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You need financial knowledge in your personal life, right?

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You need financial knowledge if you're leading a division.

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You need financial knowledge.

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If you're leading a research program, because budgets and administering the funds that you've

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received are part of that process.

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And then you need financial knowledge for your life, for wealth building, for retirement

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planning, because as a clinician, you have come to the game later than your peers, right?

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There are people who graduated with you from high school who've already made a million

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or two, right, in their retirement funds.

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And you are maybe a little bit behind them.

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Perhaps you've caught up already, but you need to understand strategy to say, well,

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how do I make up for the lost time?

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Oh, that's not really taught in our clinical training.

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And again, that's okay, because clinical training is not supposed to teach you that.

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But what it's supposed to help you recognize is that, okay, well, this is an area in which

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you are lacking in a skill.

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And that's okay, because you are great at learning new skills.

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And those skills do really need to continue to be built up.

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And so financial training, financial education is an important component of our lives, no

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matter what we do.

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Whether we stay in the clinical space only, or we branch out and do different things like

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administration or research leadership, finances are so, so important.

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And I want to just recommend that we think about how can I go get the financial education

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that I need?

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Okay.

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Next to that is business education.

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Okay, so I don't want to lump financial education and business education together.

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They do go together clearly, but they're different.

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So for those of us who are thinking, okay, well, we want to go maybe establish our own

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practice or be part of a practice, understanding business principles or entrepreneurial principles

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are so important.

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To be honest, entrepreneurial principles show up in research as well.

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Because for example, I think the easy connection is basic science research.

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Let's say you've been working on this molecule that has therapeutic properties, right?

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You finally get to a point in your research where, oh, this looks promising.

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The preliminary data shows that perhaps it could go to clinical trials.

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Okay, well, how do you take a molecule that is now showing promise and take it to where

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it is commercially viable?

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And you may be like, that's not my problem.

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My problem is just to do the work in the lab.

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But how do you do that?

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If you want to, do you have the knowledge?

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And again, I'm not asking you to drop everything and go find our entrepreneurial education,

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go get entrepreneurial education or go get a business education.

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I'm not saying that.

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I'm just saying that as part of your clinical work, there are opportunities to understand

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entrepreneurship, to understand business principles.

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And yeah, we didn't learn them in our clinical training, but holy cow, it is kind of important.

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Because when we go and we're advocating for things that we need, whether clinically or

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in the research space, many of the times we're talking to business people.

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They're MBAs.

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They're running our organizations, whether we like them or we don't like them.

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For whatever reason, we may or may not like them, but there they are.

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They're the people with the financial background.

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They're the people with the business degrees.

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They're running your unit.

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And once in a while, you're going to need to talk to them, especially if you're moving

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into leadership in any way.

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If you're leading large grants, wow, it matters.

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If you're leading a division or you're leading a department or maybe you even want to be

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dean, wow, you got to deal with these people.

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And if you're going to, and I don't mean these people like, oh my gosh, those people, but

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just you got to deal with people who are business savvy, who think in business terms, who think

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of people as units producing dollars.

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And this is no judgment of them.

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It's just, that's the what they've been brought up to.

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They've been brought to think that way.

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And so when they look at your unit and they're like, well, I don't understand why none of

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these doctors are making any money.

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Can we fire some of them?

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You need to understand that they think differently from you.

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And if you had the language to be able to talk to these business oriented people, you

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might be able to make a bigger impact than if you just went there whining and complaining.

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If you understand the language of pro forma or making a case and looking at the profit

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and the loss, you may be able to get through to them a little bit more efficiently compared

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to if you just came and said, this is horrible.

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The way you're treating patients is the wrong thing.

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You're going to burn for this.

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Oh my goodness, I'm getting carried away.

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But you know, it's very emotional because we really care about our patients.

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We are here to take care of our patients.

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And for many of us, the way we've been brought up in medicine, we're ready to die to care

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for patients.

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Please don't die to care for patients.

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I want you to live another day to care for patients.

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Well, I'm saying that we are very oriented towards patient care and not really considering

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the business of medicine.

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And unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on what way you want to look at it, the business

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of medicine drives our experience of medicine.

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Now, I recognize that I'm talking, I think, to mostly clinicians who are doing research.

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And so you may be like, oh, the business of medicine is not my problem.

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But that already you know is a fallacy, right?

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The business of medicine, whether you get money through grant funding or you get money

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through clinical work, or you get money through a dedicated educational activity, or you get

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money through administrative work that you do or for your administrative work, money

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is money.

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And institutions, businesses run on money.

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And so it is important for you to understand business principles so that you can have good

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conversations that are effective and help you advocate well for the people that you

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work with or for the groups that you lead and you serve.

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Okay, so there you go.

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We talked about business knowledge.

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The other knowledge that I think is so important is managerial knowledge.

294
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,400
Okay, so this I separate from leadership, because to be honest, physician training is

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00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:04,600
leadership, right?

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You are leading, you are standing up and saying, I think this patient has a diabetic foot ulcer,

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I believe we should get a CT scan, let's have the transport person come and get the patient

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to take them to the CT to have a look at those, those to take, you know, look at the legs,

299
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let's make sure ortho is called, you're leading a team.

300
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And usually you're leading a multidisciplinary team, especially as you rise up in your training.

301
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So leadership really is a part of clinician training is something we've done a lot of.

302
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And so I don't, I didn't list leadership there, but I did list management, management of people

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and relationships.

304
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Ooh, very, very challenging.

305
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That is something we're not necessarily taught managing the people side of things.

306
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So yes, we've led, we've, you know, we've, we've, we've led teams, we've done so successfully.

307
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We've led teams to be able to care for patients.

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We've led families to be able to come to difficult conclusions, but what we haven't learned is

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how to manage people and what we begin to recognize in our roles, in our clinical roles.

310
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Wow.

311
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,280
We're managing relationships with nursing staff or allied health staff, or perhaps it's

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your advanced practice provider.

313
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You're managing those relationships.

314
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And many a physician have I heard from who said, I had no idea.

315
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,480
They were so upset.

316
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,360
In fact, I've had, I've had issues too, where I was like, oh, really?

317
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:33,720
They were mad and complaining about me.

318
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,240
How is it that I had no idea?

319
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:41,320
There are many managerial issues as far as managing people that really we don't get any

320
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,320
training for.

321
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,040
Meanwhile, it's an inherent part of the work we do.

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00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,120
So you don't escape if you're like, oh yeah, I don't really do clinical.

323
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:50,240
I don't have to manage people.

324
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:51,300
Yes, you do.

325
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As you're building a research program, you start to have staff that work for you.

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I hope they are working for you as you're getting grants and funding people to be able

327
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to work within your research program.

328
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,040
And then all of a sudden you have to learn to manage them.

329
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,840
And all of a sudden there's a person who doesn't show up for work three weeks in a row.

330
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Meanwhile, you are paying them every week.

331
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,020
What do you want to do about that?

332
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How do you handle it?

333
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,160
Who do you talk to?

334
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,040
And for many of us, it's like, wait a minute, I'm focused on my research.

335
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,400
I don't have time for this.

336
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,040
And yeah, you don't have time for it, and yes, you must address it.

337
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,160
Where do you get the education you need to manage people?

338
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,160
Okay.

339
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,560
So I'm just sharing areas that you need to think about and address, though I'm not necessarily

340
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,160
telling you exactly where you go get this information.

341
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:45,200
But yes, so the fourth thing we talked about is the importance of management.

342
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:51,840
The fifth thing that I want to talk about is the importance of relationships.

343
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,200
So this one's a little bit different because to be honest, we've been doing relationships

344
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,300
all of our lives.

345
00:22:57,300 --> 00:23:09,800
But I think the aspect of it I want to talk about is the fact that when you finally transition,

346
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,680
well first of all, to be honest, let's go back to the very beginning.

347
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Who you were before you went into medical school is completely different from the other

348
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,640
person who showed up on the other side of medicine.

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And so if your parents knew you at the very beginning or your family members knew you,

350
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,280
let's just say that you were a very different person at the very end and you continue to

351
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,760
transform.

352
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And one of the ways in which you've changed is how busy you are and how you don't have

353
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,620
as much time perhaps compared to other people to do the things that people your age do.

354
00:23:41,620 --> 00:23:47,600
So let's say for example, your friends on the weekends will go skiing maybe every other

355
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:55,640
weekend or go to the mountains for a nice guy's trip or a girl's trip.

356
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,280
And your schedule doesn't allow you to do that that often.

357
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:03,360
And in fact, maybe financially you can't do that as often right away because you're taking

358
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,160
time to build it up.

359
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:11,320
And so to some extent, there are expectations of relationships around you or of people around

360
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,880
you who maybe used to know you or who don't even really know you but are in community

361
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,240
with you.

362
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,200
And there is a difference in expectation.

363
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,160
And sometimes you feel that tension because people feel like, well, you should be in the

364
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,160
same group as us.

365
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,160
You should be doing this.

366
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,320
You should be available for golf on Monday mornings.

367
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,720
And maybe at some point in your life, you will be available for golf on Monday mornings.

368
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,680
But that likely is not you at this point in your career.

369
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,640
How do you manage those relationships?

370
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,300
How do you manage those expectations?

371
00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:44,600
How do you manage those?

372
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,840
Now I'll say personally for me, one challenge I've had is people schedule meetings at night.

373
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,440
I am an early morning riser.

374
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,440
Now that doesn't so much have to do with my clinical training as much as that, you know,

375
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,080
if I'm on call, I haven't slept for the week before because I've been on call.

376
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,720
I just I want to catch up on sleep the next week for sure.

377
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,000
And so when people are like, oh my gosh, we have a party, it's coming up and we'd love

378
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
you to come.

379
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,880
How do you navigate those relationships and those expectations?

380
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,800
Now you may say, hey, that's common sense.

381
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,040
And I just want to tell you that it is not common sense.

382
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:23,580
It takes tact and wisdom and grace to be able to manage these.

383
00:25:23,580 --> 00:25:26,320
Now I'm even talking about relationships outside of work.

384
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,520
But let's even talk about relationships at work.

385
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:32,360
How do you manage your division chief who says you should take this role, it's gonna

386
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,880
be great for your career.

387
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,240
And you're like, I hate that role.

388
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,040
I know it's gonna suck.

389
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,460
No thank you.

390
00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:44,000
How do you politely say to somebody who is higher than you in the hierarchical order

391
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,040
that no, thank you.

392
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,800
I don't care for your recommendation.

393
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,520
And some of us have no challenges doing that to say, hey, this is a really great opportunity,

394
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,320
but I don't think it's for me.

395
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:55,320
But some of us struggle.

396
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,840
Some of us struggle where we're like, well, I don't want to make this person mad.

397
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,560
Why don't I just say yes?

398
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,060
And then we end up saying yes to things that we don't want to say.

399
00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:10,000
And so yeah, we need coaching to be able to help us manage those relationships, especially

400
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:15,860
the hierarchical relationships that maybe make us feel as if we are not choosing but

401
00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:17,880
that others are choosing for us.

402
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,580
Now in the research space, it's the mentor mentee relationship where you feel like you

403
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:22,920
owe the mentor.

404
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,880
So whatever they ask you, you're like, of course I'll do it.

405
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,180
Not because it's something you want to do.

406
00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:30,880
But now you feel the obligation of, wow, this person is invested in me.

407
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,600
How can I say no?

408
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,720
Just because they've invested in you doesn't mean you don't get to say no.

409
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,040
But I can see that there is a challenge because there's a power differential.

410
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,700
And sometimes mentors are not such great people in terms of how they treat people or how they

411
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:47,040
take no.

412
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,600
And I'm not calling out mentors specifically or wanting them to look bad.

413
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,480
I'm just saying our parents struggle with that too.

414
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,600
The moment you look to be growing up and saying, I don't want to do this thing you're recommending,

415
00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,780
parents struggle with it.

416
00:26:59,780 --> 00:27:01,440
It's a similar issue.

417
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,080
And so yeah, people, people relationships hard.

418
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,880
And you might say, oh, I should know how to do this.

419
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:08,880
I'm an adult.

420
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,380
But I have to tell you that it's a skill that needs to be learned.

421
00:27:13,380 --> 00:27:15,640
And just because you don't have the skill doesn't make you a bad person.

422
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,320
But it does mean you need the skill.

423
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,240
So think about that and think about going to get that skill.

424
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:25,560
Okay.

425
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,720
Number six is planning for retirement.

426
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,480
I know I talked about finances and number two.

427
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,200
And here I am talking about planning for retirement.

428
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,520
So I'm not going to talk too much about it.

429
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:40,160
But just saying that you love to work and you see yourself working forever and ever

430
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,520
and ever, which is fine.

431
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,480
But are you thinking about what, you know, when you finally do decide to throw in the

432
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,480
towel on your clinical work, what does the rest of your life look like?

433
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,920
How do you get there?

434
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,320
How are you doing retirement planning?

435
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600
And it's a really important conversation to have.

436
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,400
It's a really, it's an important thing to think about.

437
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,120
Some of us outsource these decisions.

438
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:07,120
I'm going to say even when you outsource them, you should be aware, you should be savvy in

439
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:10,640
thinking about what do you want your life to look like?

440
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,160
Do you want to wait until retirement for your life to look like that?

441
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,440
And having conversations around what are the appropriate strategies for wealth building.

442
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,440
That's important.

443
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,600
And we're not taught in med school or in our clinical training, but we do need to understand

444
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,600
this.

445
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:32,400
And then it's also important, especially for those of us who are employed as academic faculty,

446
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:38,320
because sometimes, especially compared to our compadres in private practice, we make

447
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,840
a lot less.

448
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,200
And so it's like, well, you're making a lot less.

449
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,200
This is great.

450
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:44,800
You have such great flexibility.

451
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,080
What does that say about your retirement schedule?

452
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,080
So you had said at 65, you want to retire based on what you're earning right now.

453
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,440
Or you can be able to retire at 65, or you can need to push it to 78.

454
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,960
That sounds awful.

455
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,600
But these are the important things to realize and to think about, because you understand

456
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,840
that you're doing certain things for a certain benefit today.

457
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,760
But you do want to recognize how they fit in the context of your bigger life.

458
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,760
Okay.

459
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,080
Number seven is legacy.

460
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,160
How do you leave a legacy?

461
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,720
And now this is the kind of thing I feel like people are like, well, when I'm 80, I'll think

462
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:20,720
about my legacy.

463
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,160
When I'm 70, I'll think about the legacy I want to leave.

464
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:29,200
And I would say that if you're thinking about legacy building when you're older, I hope

465
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,560
you'll have the time to really build the legacy you want.

466
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But the reality is that the legacy you're building starts now.

467
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,600
And building legacy is something that we don't authentically, immediately, automatically

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know how to do.

469
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We need help to learn how to do that.

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And if we were thinking in terms of building legacy right now, it might change the way

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we interact with mentees.

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It might change the way we interact with people around us.

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It may change the kind of work we do.

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Because when we ask ourselves, hey, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, when I am no longer

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here, what will be left?

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What will be the evidence that I was here?

477
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What is the evidence?

478
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:15,280
And that's so important because I have to say that many times we as clinicians, we love

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to give to our patients.

480
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We absolutely do.

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And in reality, we will always have people who remembered how well we cared for them

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00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,520
and how much we loved on their kids.

483
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,200
But for some of us, there is a need for more tangibility to that legacy.

484
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It's not just how many patients did I serve, but like, what is the mark, the indelible

485
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,400
mark I left on my community?

486
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What is the indelible mark I left upon my family?

487
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,900
And you may think this is something that should just come naturally as you age, but it doesn't.

488
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:50,800
It takes time to consider legacy, to begin to ask yourself, am I going to be able to

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00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,520
leave this legacy if I'm working the way I'm working now, or if I'm doing the kinds of

490
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things I'm doing now?

491
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,080
Legacy building is not an accident.

492
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,020
It doesn't just happen.

493
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:09,160
It is an intentional strategic move or a series of intentional strategic moves that people

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make to get to the intended destination of building legacy.

495
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,720
So those are the things I just wanted to share for you to consider as things that we didn't

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00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,000
learn as clinicians, but are super important for our future.

497
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,680
And for that reason, I want you to be thinking about it and to see how can you get a little

498
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,600
bit of an education or maybe a lot?

499
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,600
Where can you go?

500
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,960
What circles can you go to?

501
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,800
What communities can you be part of so that you can get the knowledge that you need?

502
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:45,360
Okay, I'm going to summarize those seven, research, finances, business, management of

503
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:50,480
people, relationships, retirement, and legacy.

504
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Those are the seven areas that I think, I mean, they're not exhaustive, right?

505
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,080
This is not, oh my gosh, you need these seven areas and you're done.

506
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,240
It's just easy, right, to give you a list of seven.

507
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,420
There are other things beside this list that you should be thinking about.

508
00:32:03,420 --> 00:32:08,760
But I want to say at the end of this that just because you weren't taught in medical

509
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,120
school, just because it wasn't part of your clinical training, doesn't mean it's not important

510
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,120
for you.

511
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,760
And just because your faculty appointment or your academic institution doesn't give

512
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,500
you these opportunities for development in these areas, doesn't mean you shouldn't go

513
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:26,720
out and get them for yourself.

514
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:32,320
And so whatever opportunities you have to grow in the area in which you desire, go out

515
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,320
and do it.

516
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,320
Don't wait for permission.

517
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,320
Go out and do it.

518
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,400
And don't say I'm too busy, because what you're really saying is I don't prioritize it.

519
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,160
You will always be too busy to do the things you don't prioritize.

520
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,700
And so I invite you to think about what are the priorities for yourself, for your life?

521
00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:51,840
What is the legacy you want to leave?

522
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:59,440
And are you doing the things to get you to the destination you want to go to?

523
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,800
Or are you kind of just floating with a plan to end up at a destination if somebody else

524
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,480
is choosing?

525
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,480
All right.

526
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:07,480
It's been a pleasure talking with you today.

527
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,440
Thank you so much for listening.

528
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,120
I look forward to talking with you again the next time on the Clinician Researcher Podcast.

529
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:22,680
Thank you for listening.

530
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:28,040
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic

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00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:33,280
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they

532
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,860
have a mentor.

533
00:33:34,860 --> 00:33:40,960
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.

534
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,720
Someone else needs to hear it.

535
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,760
So take a minute right now and share it.

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00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:52,220
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation

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00:33:52,220 --> 00:34:05,120
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.