Are publications really necessary?

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,560Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.1300:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,560I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.1400:01:08,560 --> 00:01:13,560I want to thank you for tuning in, and I am talking today about publications.1500:01:13,560 --> 00:01:14,560Are they even necessary?1600:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,120Do you really need publications in this academic career?1700:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,560What is this thing about publications?1800:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,160I want to talk about them because, you know, have you ever heard the phrase publish or1900:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,160perish?2000:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,080I don't know where that came from.2100:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,880I'm sure there's a great origin story, but already I hear it and I'm like, really, publish2200:01:35,880 --> 00:01:36,880or perish?2300:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,880What does that even really mean?2400:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,000Are you really going to perish if you don't publish?2500:01:41,000 --> 00:01:48,560Yes, it does allude to the fact that in academic environments, publications are so valued,2600:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,560and if you don't publish, then there's just the sense that you don't belong, and maybe2700:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,200you may not be promoted like you'd want to.2800:01:55,200 --> 00:02:01,560So yeah, there are some consequences of not having publications, but do you die?2900:02:01,560 --> 00:02:02,560No.3000:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,040Your life continues.3100:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,320Anyway, so I'm just telling you that publish or perish is not real, but, you know, in not3200:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,240in the sense of the word of like actual perishing.3300:02:11,240 --> 00:02:18,520Anyway, I digress, but I think it's important to talk about publications because, wow, they're3400:02:18,520 --> 00:02:24,960so much anxiety and dread and worry and fear that's around publications sometimes.3500:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,120And to be honest, there's so much anxiety and pressure over publications that people3600:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,440are making stuff up just to publish.3700:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,680And I want to talk about publications.3800:02:36,680 --> 00:02:41,920I want to talk about it, not from the perspective of, oh my gosh, I'm going to advance my career3900:02:41,920 --> 00:02:48,160and I'm going to be promoted or I'll be able to, you know, gain a higher salary because4000:02:48,160 --> 00:02:49,520I have this new promotion.4100:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,280I'm not going to talk about it from that perspective.4200:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,640I think enough people talk about publications from the perspective of currency, of academia,4300:02:57,640 --> 00:03:00,520why it's needed for promotion and tenure.4400:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,960And I think all of that is great.4500:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,720It's just not very motivating.4600:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,200Like yeah, publish because if you don't publish, you can't be promoted.4700:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,400That just to me is not very motivating.4800:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,760It's like, who says I want to be promoted?4900:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,120I mean, you do, but it's like the connection between publication and promotion is so far5000:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,720you know, it's like, okay, how do you make the connection today?5100:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,920I mean, it's far, right?5200:03:24,920 --> 00:03:29,160You start your faculty career job now and in six years you need to have published enough5300:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,680to be able to be promoted.5400:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,280Maybe it's seven years for some of you, eight, nine.5500:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,800You got to have published enough to be promoted, but what's going to sustain you today other5600:03:37,800 --> 00:03:38,800than this stick?5700:03:38,800 --> 00:03:44,280I mean, I'm sorry, this carrot on a stick in the far future that, you know, eventually5800:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,360you'll get there and maybe you'll be promoted.5900:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,200It sustains you today.6000:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,120What are the benefits of publication right this moment?6100:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,720And the reason it's important is because in order to succeed at any goal, you really do6200:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,120have to break it down into its small steps and enjoy the journey.6300:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,680You got to enjoy the journey.6400:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,920And if you don't enjoy the journey, wow, it's going to be really hard to sustain it over6500:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,920the long term.6600:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,640You might be able to do it at a frenzied pace for a month, two months, three months.6700:04:11,640 --> 00:04:17,880Maybe you could get to 12 months, but you're not going to sustain a 30 to 40 year career,6800:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,720God helping you live long, long, long, right?6900:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,280God helping you live a long life.7000:04:22,280 --> 00:04:27,400You're not going to sustain that kind of frenzied energy over a long career.7100:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,260And you know, honestly, some people are able to sustain the frenzied energy over a six7200:04:31,260 --> 00:04:32,260year career.7300:04:32,260 --> 00:04:37,040And then they get tenure and they're like, I'm done, no more publications.7400:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,480And that kind of is a sad thing because, you know, it's not about just promotion and tenure.7500:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,600Please people hear me.7600:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,200Publications are not just about getting promoted.7700:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,720And if you just are working, working, working to churn out publications just so you can7800:04:52,720 --> 00:04:57,120get promoted, I would like you to consider whether you are in the right career, whether7900:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,060this is what you really want to be doing.8000:05:00,060 --> 00:05:08,200Because your academic journey, your faculty journey is not about, you know, brownie points8100:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,840or stars or gold stars or rewards.8200:05:12,840 --> 00:05:17,780It really is about building a career that is satisfying to you, that you're able to8300:05:17,780 --> 00:05:20,800look back on and say, wow, this was the career I had.8400:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,520Look at all the impact I made.8500:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,040And publications are part of that impact.8600:05:26,040 --> 00:05:32,520But I do want to talk today about a couple of reasons why you should consider publishing.8700:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,440And I'm talking about reasons that benefit you today.8800:05:36,440 --> 00:05:42,040And I hope that if you are not kind of already working to get some of your ideas out and8900:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,560getting them published, I encourage you to definitely do that.9000:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,920Or if you are and you're discouraged and you're like, oh, I don't want to do this anywhere.9100:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,920This is too hard.9200:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,280I just want to encourage you again that it is really worth doing.9300:05:55,280 --> 00:06:00,680And I want to give you five reasons to think about when it comes to publishing.9400:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,240The first thing is growth of your personal knowledge.9500:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,400And I will say that as physicians, we are full of knowledge, right?9600:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,640We went through medical school and the whole process of medical school was to pump your9700:06:11,640 --> 00:06:18,720head full of knowledge, at least the first two years were.9800:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,640And half of that time is spent pouring knowledge into your head.9900:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,680And the other half is spent mopping the knowledge off the floor and trying to get it back in10000:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,480your head because clearly it's not sticking.10100:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,940But when you're on the wards as a third and a fourth year, second year for some of you,10200:06:35,940 --> 00:06:43,020you recognize that a lot of that information does stay because it's knowledge you need10300:06:43,020 --> 00:06:45,340to advance patient care.10400:06:45,340 --> 00:06:51,640But when you start to take care of patients, when you move in medical school from trying10500:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,480to memorize all these facts to actually caring for patients, the facts stick better in the10600:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,680context of actually taking care of the patient.10700:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,160It's like, oh, the pathophysiology of renal failure makes sense because I've cared for10800:07:04,160 --> 00:07:05,840a patient with renal failure.10900:07:05,840 --> 00:07:07,880I've kind of seen it unfold.11000:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,000It's not just the thing in the textbook I've memorized.11100:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,320It's the patient experience that I had.11200:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,960You remember how that knowledge struck better when you had the experiential knowledge?11300:07:17,960 --> 00:07:18,960Yes.11400:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,080And when you're writing a publication, writing manuscripts for publication is the same thing.11500:07:23,080 --> 00:07:29,320It's that you have this knowledge, but when you actually have to go dig up references11600:07:29,320 --> 00:07:35,000and figure out how to put it together in a cogent way in a manuscript format and submit11700:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,160it for publication, you really do grow in your personal knowledge.11800:07:39,160 --> 00:07:44,440You become someone who has knowledge on this topic because you've written about it.11900:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,560And it's just so powerful.12000:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,440It's the reason why when people are looking for speakers, they go looking for people who've12100:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,000published on things because it means these are people who are reading the literature12200:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,440and are well versed with what's going on with this topic.12300:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,400They have knowledge because they've had to write about the topic.12400:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,800And so writing about a topic does give you knowledge.12500:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,440It helps you advance.12600:08:04,440 --> 00:08:05,640And it's really awesome.12700:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,760I don't know about you, but you know, the first year of medical school was the most12800:08:09,760 --> 00:08:10,760frustrating year.12900:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,560We were learning so much and it's like, what is the point of all this knowledge?13000:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,480And can my brain take any more?13100:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,480And then when I finally got to the words, it was like, oh my gosh, this is so awesome.13200:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,320I'm so glad I'm learning all the things I'm learning because of all the people I'm able13300:08:24,320 --> 00:08:25,320to help.13400:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,120It is so incredible.13500:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,240It's that same personal satisfaction with knowledge that's actionable, with knowledge13600:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,000that helps people move forward.13700:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,280Personal knowledge is one of the gifts of writing manuscripts for publication.13800:08:38,280 --> 00:08:42,520And I want to invite you to do it because yeah, you know, you see all these patients,13900:08:42,520 --> 00:08:47,240but when you have to put into words and when you have to like look in the literature and14000:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,760say, okay, where does this fit relative to what people are saying?14100:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,640How is this different from what the literature is saying?14200:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,400It really enhances your knowledge base.14300:08:56,400 --> 00:08:57,400It is so awesome.14400:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,720It is so personally satisfying.14500:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,220And I invite you, if you have not kind of like just, you know, enjoyed the experience14600:09:06,220 --> 00:09:08,000of kind of knowledge of writing.14700:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,360I mean, the experience of like growing in your knowledge as you write, it's absolutely14800:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,600worth it and I recommend it.14900:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,560Okay, so personal knowledge is one of the gifts of publishing.15000:09:20,560 --> 00:09:24,320The second is conversation with the scientific community.15100:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,720And I'm keeping it positive here because conversation with the scientific community actually also15200:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,720refers to peer review, but I'm not really talking about peer review right now.15300:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,440I'm talking about what you have to do to be able to actually write a manuscript for publication.15400:09:37,440 --> 00:09:38,800You need to know the literature.15500:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,520Okay, you don't have to know everything, but you need to know a broad swath of the literature15600:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,400related to your topic that you're publishing on.15700:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,800So you are having a conversation with other scientists indirectly through their work,15800:09:51,800 --> 00:09:52,800right?15900:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,800You go and you say, well, we found this amazing thing.16000:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,680It's like great, good for you.16100:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,640How does it converse with what's already in the literature?16200:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,520Like how does it compare?16300:10:01,520 --> 00:10:02,840Is this the same?16400:10:02,840 --> 00:10:03,960Is it different?16500:10:03,960 --> 00:10:05,640What's new about your work?16600:10:05,640 --> 00:10:06,720What's novel?16700:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,200What's interesting?16800:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,320Tell us about your work in light of everything that's going on.16900:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,320And it's so important.17000:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,720It's the reason why when we write manuscripts for publication, we have all this list of17100:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,600citations, right?17200:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,040Because we've looked up other papers.17300:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,800I hope you're not just putting numbers on the page.17400:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,720I hope you've actually looked at these citations.17500:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,680But you really are in conversation with the scientific community, with other people through17600:10:26,680 --> 00:10:27,680their work.17700:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,360That's a beautiful thing.17800:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,680It's a beautiful thing because science doesn't happen in a vacuum.17900:10:32,680 --> 00:10:39,480And our data is totally impartial, but the way we interpret the data is not, right?18000:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,520I am a biased person interpreting my data in a biased way.18100:10:43,520 --> 00:10:44,880The data is not biased.18200:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,800My interpretation of the data is biased.18300:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,940And the question is, is it biased toward the way it's reported in the literature?18400:10:51,940 --> 00:10:53,920Was it biased against it?18500:10:53,920 --> 00:11:00,480And so, being in conversation with the literature allows you to sort that out and talk about18600:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,480it.18700:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,480And maybe that at the end, you're sticking with your biases as opposed to what's like,18800:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,100where the literature is leading you.18900:11:08,100 --> 00:11:11,760And that's fine, but you're going to be explicit and you're going to state it.19000:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,400You're going to be explicit about it.19100:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,120And then you're going to get past the reviewers, right?19200:11:15,120 --> 00:11:16,600But this is not about the reviewers.19300:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,680So I'm not talking about that kind of science communication today.19400:11:19,680 --> 00:11:25,120But it's a great conversation because the work you do, the patients you see, none of19500:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,720it is happening in a vacuum.19600:11:26,720 --> 00:11:31,720And so the opportunity to converse with the scientific community is amazing.19700:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,400It's great because it enhances you.19800:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,040It's not just knowledge that you're growing in.19900:11:39,040 --> 00:11:46,600It's also growing in the discourse and the ability to communicate your work scientifically.20000:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,600And that's really awesome.20100:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,120Number three is that you're growing in skills.20200:11:51,120 --> 00:11:56,400So we've talked about the growth as far as like knowledge growth, the growth as far as20300:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,560knowing how to converse with the scientific community through the work of others who have20400:12:00,560 --> 00:12:04,720come before you, but also growing in the skill of writing.20500:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,400Now I will tell you that there are many scientific manuscripts that I read and I'm like, okay,20600:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,120didn't understand exactly what they did, but it sounds really cool.20700:12:13,120 --> 00:12:20,240But you know, the more you do it and the more seasoned journals, I'll call them seasoned20800:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,080journals that you go after, the higher the quality of your writing needs to be, the higher20900:12:25,080 --> 00:12:30,440the quality of your synthesis, the higher the quality of the work that you pull together.21000:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,740And so it challenges you.21100:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,520It challenges you to grow in skill.21200:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,920It challenges you to grow in quality.21300:12:38,920 --> 00:12:45,000It challenges you to do the case reports, but then move beyond the case reports to case21400:12:45,000 --> 00:12:52,600series and then move beyond that to clinical studies or to actual clinical trials, to different21500:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,600things.21600:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,080So you're not really understanding what your area of research is, but it really helps you21700:12:56,080 --> 00:13:01,520grow in skill because writing a manuscript is not just about the writing, which is amazing21800:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,360because you're growing your writing skills and your science communication.21900:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,360That's awesome.22000:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,440But it's also about all the skills you have to grow in to be able to have something to22100:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,480put down on the manuscript, right?22200:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,840You've got to first of all, do the work or make the observation or do the analysis before22300:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,760you now say, oh, I'm going to put it on paper and I'm going to submit it as a manuscript.22400:13:22,760 --> 00:13:28,800And the fact that you are in the process of writing and publishing regularly allows you22500:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,800to keep looking for opportunities to continue to grow things that you can put on paper and22600:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,560share with the scientific community.22700:13:36,560 --> 00:13:40,360So it's really great because it helps you grow in your research skills.22800:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,280It helps you grow in your writing as well.22900:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,680And I call it a keystone habit.23000:13:45,680 --> 00:13:50,480And so a keystone habit comes from Charles Duhigg, the power of habit, where there's23100:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,320one habit you start doing that changes everything else around you.23200:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,960For example, you start exercising and all of a sudden you change the way you eat.23300:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,000So it's a keystone habit.23400:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,320When you start to write for publications, it's a keystone habit because the more you23500:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,640write and publish, the more you look for it to write and publish.23600:14:08,640 --> 00:14:16,400So it's kind of like a self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak, or feedback loop really of continuing23700:14:16,400 --> 00:14:22,880to help you create what is needed for the next manuscript and then the next manuscript23800:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,560and then the next one after that.23900:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,440So it really does help you grow in your skills.24000:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,800The next one, which is number four, is expertise.24100:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,560Okay, you're the one writing about it.24200:14:35,560 --> 00:14:36,560You are the expert.24300:14:36,560 --> 00:14:41,400You know, recently I wrote a manuscript and I wrote the manuscript because I was part24400:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,400of the guidelines writing committee for the American Society for Atheresis.24500:14:45,400 --> 00:14:50,000And as part of that, I created, you know, I developed one of their new fact sheets.24600:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,720And having put in all that energy, I remember thinking, I was like, there is no way this24700:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,440is not going to become a review paper.24800:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,440There's just no way.24900:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,560I mean, I mean, we were clearly writing the guidelines, so that was its own paper.25000:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,860But I felt like so much work had gone into this new fact sheet that it needed to become25100:15:05,860 --> 00:15:07,720its own review paper.25200:15:07,720 --> 00:15:13,240And so I pulled the work together and I wrote it and I submitted it and it was, you know,25300:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,520accepted and it was published.25400:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,580And then all of a sudden people start coming out of the woodworks asking me to review papers25500:15:18,580 --> 00:15:20,280that are similar.25600:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,040And many times I had to say, but no, this is not my area of expertise.25700:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,800I mean, well, this is not my area of expertise.25800:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,560They're like, wait a minute, but you wrote about it.25900:15:30,560 --> 00:15:38,000Yeah, but yeah, but how do you convince people that you're not the expert after you've just26000:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,400written one paper?26100:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,280Very hard to do.26200:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,600Because you know what?26300:15:42,600 --> 00:15:47,240It is a rare topic and you are one of very few people who've written about it.26400:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,560And now everybody wants to hear your opinion.26500:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,480And to be honest, you kind of are the expert.26600:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,600The person who writes about it is the expert because they're the ones thinking about it26700:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,560in ways that nobody else is thinking about it.26800:15:58,560 --> 00:16:05,120And so if you want to become an expert, if you want to become the expert, the go-to expert,26900:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,040you choose one area and you're right in it and you're right in it and you're right in27000:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,200this field until you are tired of writing in this field.27100:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,560You'll never get tired because you'll always find new things to write about.27200:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,160But you become the expert.27300:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,920That's how you become the expert, by writing about things.27400:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,480And so it's a great thing to grow in expertise.27500:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,440And it's a great thing to grow in expertise because the next time you go around to writing27600:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,900on the same topic, you're a different person coming to this second piece of writing than27700:16:34,900 --> 00:16:37,920you were the first time you came to this space.27800:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,960And you now have some understanding under your belt of this field that you didn't have27900:16:42,960 --> 00:16:43,960the first time.28000:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,280And then multiply that by 20, multiply that by 30.28100:16:48,280 --> 00:16:57,360Now 30 papers later, you have nuances of understanding, nuanced understanding that nobody else has28200:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,240because you are the expert writing in this space.28300:17:01,240 --> 00:17:09,520And so expertise is one of the gifts of writing for publication.28400:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,200The last one, number five, is raising the next generation.28500:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,360When you first start out, you want to be first author on everything.28600:17:17,360 --> 00:17:21,960And when you can't be first author on everything, you're like, well, can I be co-first author?28700:17:21,960 --> 00:17:28,480And it's important, it's necessary in our field because there are some fields where28800:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,440being first does not necessarily mean you did everything.28900:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,920Anyway, the different fields have different conventions.29000:17:34,920 --> 00:17:41,600But in my field, as a clinician scientist, the first author is usually the one who's29100:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,800done the bulk of the work and then they're working together with the senior author.29200:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,640So there is a convention where the first author is kind of doing the most work.29300:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,660And so when you first get started, you are the one doing the most work and you're mostly29400:17:53,660 --> 00:17:56,720doing it in collaboration with a mentor.29500:17:56,720 --> 00:18:02,320But as you advance, then you start to move.29600:18:02,320 --> 00:18:09,360And you have other people work with you and you start to move to the place of being the29700:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,640senior person, the last author on the list.29800:18:13,640 --> 00:18:18,120And that's awesome because it means you are now mentoring another generation to write29900:18:18,120 --> 00:18:19,600and publish.30000:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,400And it's so powerful, it's so beautiful because, you know, by yourself, you can only write30100:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,320so much, but the moment you start mentoring others to write manuscripts, that's so awesome30200:18:30,320 --> 00:18:36,720because you can really, you know, triple your impact, quadruple your impact because now30300:18:36,720 --> 00:18:43,000you have other people that you are writing through or you are mentoring to write with.30400:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000And it's so beautiful, it's so awesome.30500:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,480Now, the thing about that is that you are going to have to put in work to help bring30600:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,060them up to the excellence with which you already write.30700:18:54,060 --> 00:18:57,180You get good at writing when you've written a couple of times, right?30800:18:57,180 --> 00:19:01,840You get good at synthesizing the literature and writing the discussion.30900:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,320And when a younger person, a trainee now comes to you and says, hey, I want to write a paper31000:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,440with you, you're good at that stuff because you've done it.31100:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,200But now you have to teach them and you've got to be patient and you've got to help them,31200:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,200you know, go through and do a great job.31300:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,080It's a commitment, it's a challenge, but it's also really rewarding.31400:19:20,080 --> 00:19:24,240You're raising the next generation of scientists and that's really awesome.31500:19:24,240 --> 00:19:28,840But you don't get to do that until you've put in the work of writing manuscripts for31600:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,360publication to yourself, until you've put in the work of going through reviewers and31700:19:33,360 --> 00:19:37,640knowing how the reviewers will come at your manuscript and knowing how to respond to the31800:19:37,640 --> 00:19:38,640reviewers.31900:19:38,640 --> 00:19:44,780You don't get to lead others in doing this work until you've done it well.32000:19:44,780 --> 00:19:49,700And so that's a beautiful thing that as you are, if you are still kind of at the place32100:19:49,700 --> 00:19:55,500where you are writing as first author, most of the time, just recognize that you are building32200:19:55,500 --> 00:19:59,520a skill set that you're going to pass on to another generation of scientists.32300:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,520And that's a really, really incredible thing.32400:20:02,520 --> 00:20:09,160Okay, so I've given you five reasons, five reasons why you should enjoy writing manuscripts32500:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,680for publication today.32600:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,880Don't wait until promotion and tenure six years from now.32700:20:13,880 --> 00:20:14,880Enjoy it today.32800:20:14,880 --> 00:20:20,680And those five reasons are personal knowledge, conversation with the scientific community32900:20:20,680 --> 00:20:26,280indirectly through their writing, growth in skills, not just the skills for writing, but33000:20:26,280 --> 00:20:30,960also the skills for doing the research, expertise because hey, you're writing about it.33100:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,360Now you know more than everybody else than reason next generation, which I think may33200:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,320be the most beautiful thing about writing for me today.33300:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,400All right, if that has been helpful to you, I want to invite you to please leave a review33400:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,400on our website.33500:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,120If you've been listening and you've enjoyed any of these podcasts, episodes, and they've33600:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,760been helpful to you, I want to invite you to please leave a review because it helps33700:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,760people find us.33800:20:53,760 --> 00:20:59,720It helps people, it helps validate the podcast as a source of good information.33900:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,880What do you do when you go and you want to buy something on say a merchant like Amazon,34000:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,840you look at the reviews, like is this worth buying?34100:21:07,840 --> 00:21:09,600Is this worth listening to?34200:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,880And so I invite you if you are enjoying this episode or if you've enjoyed other episodes34300:21:14,880 --> 00:21:20,240that we've done to leave us a five star review and I appreciate you in advance for doing34400:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,240that.34500:21:21,240 --> 00:21:25,200All right, it's been a pleasure talking with you today and thank you for taking the time34600:21:25,200 --> 00:21:37,880to listen and I look forward to talking with you again the next time.34700:21:37,880 --> 00:21:43,240Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic34800:21:43,240 --> 00:21:49,080clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether or not they have34900:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,080a mentor.35000:21:50,080 --> 00:21:56,000If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.35100:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,880Someone else needs to hear it.35200:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,920So take a minute right now and share it.35300:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,400As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation35400:22:07,400 --> 00:22:13,360of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.