Before you start your research journey, ask yourself these five questions

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:00:59,680Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,240Well, hello, everybody.1300:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,300Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.1400:01:06,300 --> 00:01:12,200I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is a pleasure to be talking with you today.1500:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,600So I have shared my story before, and I'm not sure if you've heard it, but I want to1600:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,720share it again, just in case you haven't heard it.1700:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,440But I always wanted to lead research.1800:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,120I did.1900:01:27,120 --> 00:01:36,120And even going through medical school, I wanted to be in an academic medical center, and leading2000:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,620research was kind of just a natural part of doing that.2100:01:40,620 --> 00:01:46,200And what I didn't have was access to the research training that got me there.2200:01:46,200 --> 00:01:53,080What I was instead doing was doing a clinical program, but I wanted to be a clinical researcher,2300:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,320a clinician scientist.2400:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,680And so the clinical piece was important.2500:01:57,680 --> 00:02:04,840What I didn't recognize was that nowhere in the clinical training was research training.2600:02:04,840 --> 00:02:10,240Well, I went through medical school, and I had the opportunity to do research.2700:02:10,240 --> 00:02:11,240It was great.2800:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,320I actually led a program of research.2900:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,360It was a very small program, but I still led it.3000:02:16,360 --> 00:02:22,880I did a prospective study to evaluate a new, new-at-the-time technology called cone beam3100:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,400CT in patients with breast cancer.3200:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,800And so it was looking at accelerated partial breast irradiation, which was also a new technology3300:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,880in radiation oncology at the time.3400:02:35,880 --> 00:02:42,400And it was an important paper, and that paper actually had been cited over 100 times.3500:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,160So it was an important study, my first prospective study.3600:02:46,160 --> 00:02:51,760And if I ever had the bug as far as being bitten by the bug of research, maybe that3700:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,760was it.3800:02:52,760 --> 00:02:59,240It was awesome to develop my own protocol to recruit providers who would be part of3900:02:59,240 --> 00:03:00,240that.4000:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,480And by providers, it was the radiation therapists who were administering the radiation.4100:03:04,480 --> 00:03:10,320And then to recruit patients to the effort as well, it was such an amazing opportunity.4200:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,920And I think one of the things it did for me was it pulled together my love for organizing4300:03:14,920 --> 00:03:17,920and collaboration and synergy.4400:03:17,920 --> 00:03:20,760And I got to do that when I was a medical student.4500:03:20,760 --> 00:03:27,440And that was my first, first journey to research, my first journey to leading a research program.4600:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,760While I made it through medical school, residency, as you probably experienced, was super busy.4700:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,320And yes, there was a little bit of time in there for research, but to be honest, there4800:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,280was mostly time for being a great clinician.4900:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,280And then I went to fellowship.5000:03:44,280 --> 00:03:52,400And fellowship is supposed to be the time when you are able to put aside all the clinical5100:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,160stuff and really, really focus in on a research question and answer it, especially in a second5200:03:57,160 --> 00:03:58,160and third year.5300:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,000Well, I didn't have that opportunity.5400:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,880And our training program in particular was very big on making sure we had all the clinical5500:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,080training that we needed.5600:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,000And so we had three half days of clinic during the week.5700:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,920And I have to tell you that three half days of clinic does not leave much room to grow5800:04:16,920 --> 00:04:17,920a research program.5900:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,800And when I went around to different mentors, and especially when I went around to, well,6000:04:22,800 --> 00:04:28,520potential mentors, especially the PhD mentors, they would say, oh, yeah, so when are you6100:04:28,520 --> 00:04:29,520going to be in the lab?6200:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,480And I would say, well, I have three half days of clinic.6300:04:31,480 --> 00:04:37,640And that would kill our potential mentor mentee experience.6400:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,040He's like, nope, you're not going to be here.6500:04:40,040 --> 00:04:41,400There is no point.6600:04:41,400 --> 00:04:42,400And I didn't get it at the time.6700:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,400I was so frustrated.6800:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,560I remember a time I broke down and started crying.6900:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,000And I was like, I wish I had never come to this fellowship program.7000:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,800I was so, so, so disappointed.7100:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,960Anyway, I made the most of my fellowship program.7200:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,800I ended up getting a master's in clinical investigation, which turned out to be the7300:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,640right thing to do.7400:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,000And I did get some manuscripts written.7500:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,360And I also did apply for funding.7600:05:05,360 --> 00:05:11,360And at the time, I got a clinical research training investigator award, CRTI.7700:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,480I'm sure the I is not for investigator.7800:05:13,480 --> 00:05:14,480I don't know.7900:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,880I come to these podcast episodes and I forget, like, key things.8000:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,600But anyway, it was the ASH CRTI.8100:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,560And I got that.8200:05:22,560 --> 00:05:23,560OK.8300:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,120So that's all I had.8400:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,440Going to my faculty position.8500:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,360And then I finally got to my faculty position.8600:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,480And only to find out that, you know what?8700:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,560This research career you want to do, you're not actually qualified to do it.8800:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,120And I'm like, what?8900:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,120I'm not qualified?9000:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,880They're like, yeah, we can't really make a case for you because, well, you don't have9100:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,800much publication record to your name.9200:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,480You don't have any grant funding.9300:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,000So how are we going to make this case?9400:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,000I mean, they didn't say that at the time.9500:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,560I now can say that in retrospect because I understand what that means.9600:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,240I understand that when a faculty member comes looking for a job, people are asking, well,9700:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,360what skills do they already have?9800:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,320Not what future skills do we think they'll acquire, but what do we know they can do right9900:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,200now in terms of supporting the institution, right?10000:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,920Every institution runs based on funding.10100:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,120And as a clinician, you are able to support your institution because you bring in clinical10200:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,120revenue.10300:06:20,120 --> 00:06:26,200And when you say, I want to actually work towards bringing in research revenue, then10400:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,560people start to look at your qualifications.10500:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,200And they're like, hmm, no manuscripts published.10600:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,920Hmm, no grants ever acquired.10700:06:36,920 --> 00:06:42,320Hmm, yeah, no.10800:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,320So that was me.10900:06:43,320 --> 00:06:51,480So I started my career as a faculty member doing 100% clinical.11000:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,120And they would tell me that it was 80% clinical, but I was seeing patients five days a week.11100:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,640So to be honest, I was spending all my time doing patient care.11200:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,000And it wasn't just my eight to five from Monday to Friday.11300:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,200It was my eight to five on Saturday and Sunday too.11400:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,200Oh, and the night times.11500:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,000Oh, yes, middle of the night too.11600:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,360Because at the time I had a young baby.11700:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,920Wow, it was challenging.11800:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,280But they told me that, you know, you take this clinical position, you do all this clinical11900:07:23,280 --> 00:07:28,240work and we will support you the moment you start getting research manuscripts out the12000:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,240door.12100:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,280The moment you get funding, you'll get the support you need.12200:07:32,280 --> 00:07:38,760And what I didn't realize is that that transformation does not happen.12300:07:38,760 --> 00:07:44,320You do not become a research leader by doing clinical care.12400:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,520You don't.12500:07:45,520 --> 00:07:51,680Clinical care can give you ideas to lead a research program, but clinical care and12600:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,840the whole infrastructure of clinical care is not the same infrastructure that leads12700:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,160you to leading a research program.12800:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,600Okay, I didn't know this.12900:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,040And so when I signed on, I was clearly naive.13000:08:06,040 --> 00:08:14,480And I think that while my case always felt unique at the time, I realized that more and13100:08:14,480 --> 00:08:20,120more clinicians are here in this boat where you want to lead a research program, but you're13200:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,400coming just with years and years of clinical training.13300:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,720No one really believes that you can.13400:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,680And honestly, no one really supports you to do it.13500:08:28,680 --> 00:08:29,680So what do you do?13600:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,800How do you make that transition?13700:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,040How do you, while being a full-time clinician, make the transition to leading a research13800:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,040program?13900:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,320Well, that's the answer that I came to share with you today.14000:08:41,320 --> 00:08:46,560Or actually, I didn't come to share answers with you as much as that I came to ask you14100:08:46,560 --> 00:08:47,560questions.14200:08:47,560 --> 00:08:54,640I'm going to talk to you today about five questions that you should ask on your journey14300:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,320to becoming a clinician scientist.14400:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,680Like, do you want to do this?14500:08:57,680 --> 00:09:01,520And these are the five questions you should ask and answer.14600:09:01,520 --> 00:09:07,600So you're going to answer the questions to determine whether you should take this step14700:09:07,600 --> 00:09:13,200or not, whether you should do the impossible and make the transition from clinician to14800:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,000clinician scientists.14900:09:16,000 --> 00:09:21,120The first question is to ask yourself, what do I care about?15000:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,480What do I care about?15100:09:24,480 --> 00:09:31,880And this may be the most important question that you need to answer before you move forward.15200:09:31,880 --> 00:09:40,320It's an important question because in our clinical training, actually, I can say our15300:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,140because I know this was your clinical training too.15400:09:44,140 --> 00:09:47,200You did what you have to do, whether you liked it or not.15500:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,400It was just part of your training.15600:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,400You went to medical school and they told you you had six major rotations you needed to15700:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,000finish by the end of the year, right?15800:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,840By the end of your clinical year.15900:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,520For many of you, that was your third year.16000:09:59,520 --> 00:10:01,960For me, that was my second year.16100:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,880And it's pediatrics, it's surgery, it's internal medicine, it's psychiatry, it's obstetrics16200:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,280and gynecology.16300:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,900These are the required rotations.16400:10:10,900 --> 00:10:14,520And then maybe you have one or two electives in there, things you choose.16500:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,240For the most part, there's a very, very, very specific core curriculum that you need to16600:10:19,240 --> 00:10:20,880go through as a medical student.16700:10:20,880 --> 00:10:28,220And whether you love surgery or not, you wake up before AM, you do the surgery things, right?16800:10:28,220 --> 00:10:32,080You don't say I care about surgery or I don't care, I'm not going to do this part of the16900:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,080curriculum.17000:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,080You just suck it up.17100:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,760You show up and you be the best surgeon that you can be.17200:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,080And that is the challenge of our training.17300:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,240I mean, it was important and I'm glad we did it.17400:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,520And we are better physicians for all the things we did that we hated to do.17500:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,760But it's just not the way we live life.17600:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,440It's the training, but it's not the way life is lived.17700:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,880All the stuff you had to do is no longer relevant when you start to move into someone who's17800:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,000shaping your own career into a faculty position.17900:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,880Now you stop doing things just because you're obligated to.18000:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,480To be honest, there are not many things you're obligated to do anymore.18100:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,320But you start doing things because you care.18200:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,320Like, no, this is what I care about.18300:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,000The electives, this is my life now.18400:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,240I do elective.18500:11:21,240 --> 00:11:22,240Elective time.18600:11:22,240 --> 00:11:23,240This is your elective time.18700:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,800All the elective time you didn't do in your training, this is your elective time.18800:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,120So what do you care about?18900:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,880And this is a hard question because you've been so used to doing things you have to do.19000:11:34,880 --> 00:11:39,080And because you've done that for maybe 10 years of your life at least, now you're like,19100:11:39,080 --> 00:11:40,160well, this is all my life.19200:11:40,160 --> 00:11:41,640I only do things I have to do.19300:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,480And the reality is you don't have to do things you don't care about.19400:11:45,480 --> 00:11:47,040What you should do, what you need to do.19500:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,180I mean, in reality, you live in a community that cares about certain things.19600:11:51,180 --> 00:11:56,280You should know what things are required in your institution for forward motion.19700:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,920You should align the things you care about with those things.19800:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,280And you can always make it work.19900:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,480For example, if scholarship is important in your institution, well, do scholarship on20000:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,120what you care about.20100:12:08,120 --> 00:12:15,000If international renown or being known nationally is important in your institution, well, be20200:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,760known nationally for things you care about.20300:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,680Do you see what I'm saying?20400:12:18,680 --> 00:12:24,560So yeah, there are things you have to do, but you make your own curriculum and you do20500:12:24,560 --> 00:12:29,400the things you care about and make them count for the things you have to do.20600:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,880But that's the first question you have to answer.20700:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,120What do I care about?20800:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,440Because it is time to stop doing the things you hate.20900:12:36,440 --> 00:12:42,440Because you cannot sustain a 30, 40 year career doing things you hate.21000:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,800You can do it for a six week rotation.21100:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,240You can do it for a 12 week rotation.21200:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,360You can even suck it up and do it for a year.21300:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,320You cannot spend your entire career doing things you hate.21400:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,440So what do you care about?21500:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,720Answer the question.21600:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,120Number two is commitment.21700:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,800Am I committed to research leadership?21800:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,280This is a really important question.21900:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,280Am I committed?22000:13:10,280 --> 00:13:15,240You know, research leadership is kind of like a marriage relationship or maybe people would22100:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,400say a strong committed like time relationship.22200:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,760It really is.22300:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,920It's like, look, I mean, it's great that you love me and all, but are you committed to22400:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,960me like, you know, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse and sickness and in22500:13:28,960 --> 00:13:29,960health rate?22600:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,760Are you committed?22700:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,520The funding comes through, it doesn't come through.22800:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,560Are you committed?22900:13:36,560 --> 00:13:37,560People support you.23000:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,000They don't support you.23100:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,520Are you committed?23200:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,080The mentor shows up, the mentor doesn't show up.23300:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,080Are you committed?23400:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,640And that's an important question.23500:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,600Sometimes I hear people saying, well, I just want to try and see if I like it.23600:13:50,600 --> 00:13:57,160It's like, yeah, no.23700:13:57,160 --> 00:14:03,400Sometimes this journey is hard and there are real roadblocks along the way and there are23800:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,800real people who don't want you to win for whatever reason.23900:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,640And so it's not the kind of thing for the faint of heart, but it is the kind of thing24000:14:12,640 --> 00:14:18,680that people who are committed can see it through because you're like, yeah, I'm not here for24100:14:18,680 --> 00:14:19,960the flowers and the roses.24200:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,600I mean, I love those, but you know, I can get through because I'm committed to this24300:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,140journey.24400:14:26,140 --> 00:14:27,700So are you committed?24500:14:27,700 --> 00:14:33,760Because research leadership is a commitment and you only start the journey if you're committed24600:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,760to seeing it through.24700:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,880And I think this is so important because everybody doesn't have to lead a research program.24800:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,560You don't have to lead a research program.24900:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,840You can participate in research.25000:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,440You can work with a group of other investigators and just contribute as needed.25100:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,440You can do that.25200:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,880But if you say I'm leading a research program, it is a commitment because what you're doing25300:14:56,880 --> 00:15:02,480is you're building an infrastructure where people come and they contribute to a program25400:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,240of research that you've conceived, that you are building, that you are funding, you are25500:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,400leading, and therefore you're making a commitment.25600:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,280And answer the question, am I committed to research leadership?25700:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,820And if the answer is no, then don't do it.25800:15:19,820 --> 00:15:20,820You don't have to.25900:15:20,820 --> 00:15:24,160There are other ways to succeed.26000:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,000But if you are committed, then you're ready.26100:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,680You're ready for the journey.26200:15:29,680 --> 00:15:37,260Number three, I'm calling classified information, is that there is information you don't have26300:15:37,260 --> 00:15:39,240access to.26400:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,800And I know this because you're a clinician and your clinical training was about being26500:15:43,800 --> 00:15:44,880a great clinician.26600:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,040It was not about being a great researcher.26700:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,800I always talk about the fact that PhD scientists actually do research training.26800:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,040Research training is about getting a PhD.26900:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,320It's just part of their training, right?27000:15:58,320 --> 00:16:04,040And there is a certain set of tools for success as a research scientist.27100:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,080It's a very clear set of tools.27200:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,760It's not even really a secret.27300:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,460It kind of sort of is to MDs because here you are in clinical land and you're feeling27400:16:14,460 --> 00:16:20,440like this is a ripe field for research and it kind of sort of is because clinical care27500:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,040is the foundation for the work we do as researchers.27600:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,560But let's just say your clinical training doesn't really give you these research skills,27700:16:28,560 --> 00:16:29,560right?27800:16:29,560 --> 00:16:30,560And there are many of them.27900:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,560I've talked about them in prior episodes.28000:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,120But you don't have access to the information you need to succeed as a researcher until28100:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,040you've gone to where there are researchers who are succeeding and found out what they28200:16:41,040 --> 00:16:42,200do.28300:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,760And by the classified information, what I'm saying is one of the things they do in secret28400:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,160where nobody can see them, that fuels their success.28500:16:51,160 --> 00:16:57,800How much time are they actually spending writing every day?28600:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,960How many times are they submitting grants?28700:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,480What grants are they submitting?28800:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,040What research skills do they have?28900:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,640What kinds of commitments are they making to their writing?29000:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,080You know, I will tell you a couple of weeks ago, a group of collaborators and I sat down29100:17:13,080 --> 00:17:18,040and we paid a boatload of money.29200:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,600I call it a boatload because it was an hour and a half.29300:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,840And actually, I'll just tell you, it was an hour and a half and it was $2,500.29400:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,600We sat down with an expert writer to go through our writing.29500:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,840And I will tell you that everybody doesn't do that.29600:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,080And I'm not necessarily here to say you should go do that.29700:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,800But I'm telling you that there is a certain kind of commitment that people are making29800:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,280to become good at what they do.29900:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,000It is not an open thing.30000:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000It is a secret, right?30100:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,320Secret because it's hidden from you.30200:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,880That's why it's classified information.30300:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,040But what classified information do you need access to?30400:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,240What is needed to succeed in research?30500:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,280What are people doing who succeed?30600:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,980It's not common knowledge.30700:18:03,980 --> 00:18:07,520But there is a clear set of tools for research success.30800:18:07,520 --> 00:18:14,160And the way you find out is to ask research scientists what these tools are.30900:18:14,160 --> 00:18:20,000So answer the question, what classified information do I need access to?31000:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,920Question number four is creating structures.31100:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,320What structures do you need to create to guarantee your success?31200:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,520Ask that again.31300:18:31,520 --> 00:18:37,880What structures do you need to create to guarantee your success?31400:18:37,880 --> 00:18:43,180And the reason this happens, this is an important question, is because success does not happen31500:18:43,180 --> 00:18:45,740in a vacuum.31600:18:45,740 --> 00:18:49,480Success does not happen because you kind of woke up and you got lucky and you're like,31700:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,480oh, look at you, you got successful.31800:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,680Yay, yay, yay.31900:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,640It was like when people told me when I started, they were like, yeah, well, go be a full-time32000:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,040clinician, and whenever you can make the manuscripts happen and the grants get funded,32100:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,840then of course we'll support you.32200:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,160Like, it's not the kind of thing where you roll over in bed one day and you're like,32300:19:09,160 --> 00:19:15,540oh my gosh, I made it happen, everybody, I'm so lucky.32400:19:15,540 --> 00:19:19,760You create the structure that is necessary to guarantee your success.32500:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,360So what structures do you need to create?32600:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,020What structures are you missing?32700:19:24,020 --> 00:19:25,160You now know, right?32800:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,440Because if you answer the information about the classified information thing, you go create32900:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,160a structure, right?33000:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,640What's the structure you have, number one, for consistent writing?33100:19:35,640 --> 00:19:40,880I've talked about the skills that you need to build as a research scientist.33200:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,580What structure do you have for consistent writing?33300:19:43,580 --> 00:19:45,840What structures do you have to improve your writing?33400:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,640Yeah, your writing's good.33500:19:47,640 --> 00:19:53,680And what structures do you have in place to take it to the next level?33600:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,440What structures do you have in place for accountability?33700:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,080Because no one's going to come knocking at your door saying, oh my gosh, did you submit33800:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,080that grant?33900:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,800Yeah, most of the time they don't do that.34000:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,400But they'll come knocking at your door if you don't show up to clinic.34100:20:07,400 --> 00:20:11,520So what structures do you need to create for accountability?34200:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,940What structures do you need to create to get access to information you need so your mentor34300:20:17,940 --> 00:20:21,160doesn't show up to your mentoring meetings or your mentor doesn't give you information34400:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,560that you feel like you need?34500:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,360Who else can you go to to get the information you need?34600:20:27,360 --> 00:20:34,560What structures do you need to create that guarantee your success?34700:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,080That's the next question to answer.34800:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,360Question number five is your clinical expertise.34900:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,960If you're going to be a clinician that's going to succeed as a scientist, then you've35000:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,460got to make sure that your clinical expertise and your research overlap.35100:20:47,460 --> 00:20:49,000They just have to.35200:20:49,000 --> 00:20:53,440Sometimes I see people say, well, my mentor is a breast cancer radiologist.35300:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,040I guess that's what I do now.35400:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,360And no, it's not what you do.35500:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,760Because remember, we started with care.35600:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,040What do you care about?35700:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,480If you don't care about it, please do not.35800:21:03,480 --> 00:21:04,480Oh my goodness.35900:21:04,480 --> 00:21:05,480Oh my gosh.36000:21:05,480 --> 00:21:10,240I've got to stop because this is about to get in a soap box now.36100:21:10,240 --> 00:21:16,120Many other people who build their careers around mentors' lives.36200:21:16,120 --> 00:21:19,680They're like, well, I don't care about this, but my mentor is super successful.36300:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,400And if I want to be super successful, I want to do what they do.36400:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,800And please do not do that.36500:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,920Because your mentor's career birthed probably 20, 30 years ago is a different career from36600:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,040your career.36700:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,640And they've been successful.36800:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,800And congratulations to your mentor.36900:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,200You are building something new.37000:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,000And the thing you're building is for this generation.37100:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000It's for now.37200:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,320It's starting 20, 30 years later.37300:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,400And you've got to care about what you're doing.37400:21:51,400 --> 00:21:58,040And it's got to really be the area in which you have strong expertise and you care about.37500:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,720So you want to make sure they overlap.37600:21:59,720 --> 00:22:06,320Don't go changing what you're doing just because it makes sense.37700:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,680It makes sense this moment.37800:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,760It's short term gain.37900:22:09,760 --> 00:22:15,440But long term, that probably doesn't get you to where you need to be.38000:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,360So those are the five questions.38100:22:18,360 --> 00:22:22,400I'll tell you that I actually have seven.38200:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,280But I think it's good to stop at five.38300:22:25,280 --> 00:22:30,720If you want to hear the other two, you should come to our upcoming webinar where I talk38400:22:30,720 --> 00:22:39,560about how clinicians can transition to research leadership.38500:22:39,560 --> 00:22:46,440And I'm doing that on November 20th, Monday, November 20th at 6 p.m. Eastern time.38600:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,120You are invited.38700:22:48,120 --> 00:22:53,640For more information, you should visit our podcast website, ClinicianResearcherPodcast.com.38800:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,720But I'm excited because this is my dream.38900:22:55,720 --> 00:23:00,320It's my vision is to see more clinicians lead research programs.39000:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,520And I think it's challenging.39100:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,520It's difficult.39200:23:03,520 --> 00:23:09,680But I absolutely know it can be done because I'm doing it and I'm helping other clients39300:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,320do it as well.39400:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,960And I know that if it is your dream, you can do it too.39500:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,880So to summarize, five questions you need to ask yourself on the journey to becoming a39600:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,160clinician scientist.39700:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,720Number one, what do I care about?39800:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,520Number two, am I committed to research leadership?39900:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,040Number three, what classified information do I need access to?40000:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,320Number four, what structures do I need to create to guarantee my success?40100:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,520Number five, what is my overlapping area of clinical expertise?40200:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,440Those are the five questions today.40300:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,640I want to thank you so much for taking the time to listen.40400:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,680And I look forward to talking with you again the next time.40500:23:53,680 --> 00:24:02,400Take care.40600:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,720Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic40700:24:07,720 --> 00:24:13,200clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they40800:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,520have a mentor.40900:24:14,520 --> 00:24:20,640If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.41000:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,360Someone else needs to hear it.41100:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,440So take a minute right now and share it.41200:24:26,440 --> 00:24:31,880As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation41300:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,520of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do health41400:24:37,520 --> 00:25:05,520care.