Don't defer that grant submission

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:00:59,600Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,920Welcome.1300:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,760I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a privilege to be speaking with you today.1400:01:06,760 --> 00:01:07,760Thank you for listening.1500:01:07,760 --> 00:01:14,720Today, I'm talking about why you should submit that grant, why you should submit the grant.1600:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,600And the reason I thought to speak to you about this today is because recently I was working1700:01:19,600 --> 00:01:25,560towards a grant submission, and it was about maybe 10 days to the final grant submission.1800:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,600And, you know, we have an institutional deadline before the actual grant submission, and our1900:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,120institutional deadline is a couple of weeks before the grant is actually due.2000:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,280So sometimes it doesn't feel like a real deadline, but it clearly is.2100:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,800And so it's 10 days probably to this deadline, and still feeling fuzzy on some of my aims,2200:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,040actually one of my aims specifically.2300:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,000And the person I was working with, who is a wonderful grant writing specialist who's2400:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,880phenomenal, is like, well, what do you think?2500:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,040Maybe you should defer the submission until the next time.2600:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,560And I remember thinking, oh my goodness, that's such a great idea, because, you know, to be2700:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,800honest, I just needed relief from this grant writing.2800:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,360And I was like, hmm, how about I don't submit the grant?2900:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,720But the more I thought about it, the more I thought about how much time had already gone3000:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,200into submitting the grant, the fact that I'd already made a commitment to submitting the3100:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,000grant, and the fact that I also had other grants coming.3200:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,960I was like, well, you know, this grant is, you know, it's going to get out of the way,3300:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,760and then there's another grant coming after it.3400:02:27,760 --> 00:02:33,120But if I don't submit this grant, then I have to move this grant to the next cycle.3500:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,400And it took some time and sat with myself, because I'm one of those people who really3600:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,720needs time between the need for a decision and the making of the decision.3700:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,520And I really, it takes me time to get in touch with how I really feel about things.3800:02:44,520 --> 00:02:50,440And I remember thinking, I've made a commitment, and I'm going to see this commitment through,3900:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,080because if I have to spend any more time beyond this time on this grant, it will be overwhelming.4000:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,240I need a break from it.4100:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,480And so I decided to go forward and I submitted the grants, and things came together as they4200:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,520tend to, and forced by a deadline, they came together, and I finally had the kind of clarity4300:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,600I was looking for.4400:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,820But I want to talk about this whole thing about whether or not you submit the grant,4500:03:12,820 --> 00:03:15,600because sometimes there's this sense that it's got to be a perfect grant.4600:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,180And if it's not perfect, if it's less than perfect, why bother?4700:03:19,180 --> 00:03:22,120Because the competition for grants are, it's so stiff.4800:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,400And if the competition for grant writing is stiff, or submitting proposals is stiff, then4900:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,840you shouldn't submit anything less than the best.5000:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,520But I'm here to tell you that you should submit anyway.5100:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,280Whether you think it's your absolute best product or you don't, I'm here to make an5200:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,360argument for why you should go ahead and submit the grant.5300:03:42,360 --> 00:03:48,520And so I'm going to tell you seven reasons, today I'm telling you seven compelling reasons5400:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,140why you should consider submitting the grant.5500:03:52,140 --> 00:03:56,080And this is, you know, if you don't feel it's perfect and you're like, this is not the best5600:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,720grant I could have written, I still feel like it's important to submit it.5700:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,480And here are seven reasons why.5800:04:03,480 --> 00:04:10,280The first thing is that grant writing is a commitment.5900:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,360Or maybe I should say proposal submission is a commitment, because as a clinician scientist,6000:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,360you're always writing grants.6100:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,760I mean, for the most part, you are always kind of moving your science forward and looking6200:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,320for who's going to be a funder to fund your program.6300:04:24,320 --> 00:04:30,340And so as long as you are a clinician scientist and grant writing is just what you do.6400:04:30,340 --> 00:04:36,880And so when you look on the horizon and you see different proposals that are, you know,6500:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,640coming out, requests for proposals coming out, you choose which ones you're going to6600:04:41,640 --> 00:04:42,640submit to.6700:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560It really is a commitment that you're making.6800:04:45,560 --> 00:04:52,840And in making this commitment, everything in you rises to complete this proposal submission6900:04:52,840 --> 00:04:54,940because you've made a commitment.7000:04:54,940 --> 00:05:01,960And so because you've made a commitment, then it's important to meet the commitment.7100:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,000And the commitment has a finite window.7200:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,960And so, you know, grants have submission cycles.7300:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,000And the thing about grants is that there are rarely opportunities that are once in a lifetime7400:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,560opportunities.7500:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,080Even every once in a lifetime opportunity will come again.7600:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,200So there's no real missed grant deadline.7700:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,840That's just, oh, you don't get to submit for a few more months or oh, maybe this is an7800:05:20,840 --> 00:05:23,160opportunity that comes once a year.7900:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,160And so the reality is that there are opportunity windows that you have to submit grants.8000:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,440And if you miss the window, you know what?8100:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,420The window will come again.8200:05:31,420 --> 00:05:35,400But who you are today, where your science is today, where everything is today is not8300:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,400the same as it will be, you know, a couple of months from now, a year from now.8400:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,420You won't even be the same person.8500:05:41,420 --> 00:05:46,040In the process of preparing and writing grant proposals, you're transforming each time.8600:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,960So you're not going to be the same person.8700:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,880And so what you want to do is make a commitment to this opportunity window.8800:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,520You make a commitment and you meet that commitment.8900:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,400And one of the important reasons for submitting the grant, for meeting the commitment is because9000:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,660you're really demonstrating to yourself that you're someone who meets commitments.9100:06:05,660 --> 00:06:06,660You are.9200:06:06,660 --> 00:06:09,480And it's important because there will always be a reason not to submit a grant.9300:06:09,480 --> 00:06:17,600There will always be the not so perfect, perfect, you know, environment for grant submission.9400:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,420And in reality, it's just you just bite the bullet and you do it.9500:06:22,420 --> 00:06:27,660And so I think it's important because you've made a commitment and submitting proposals9600:06:27,660 --> 00:06:30,080is really about meeting commitments.9700:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,800And there's an opportunity window where if you fail to meet this commitment, then you9800:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,400have to defer it.9900:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,600And it really means you're working on this grant for so, so, so much longer than you10000:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,540really want to be.10100:06:40,540 --> 00:06:44,080And people tell you the enemy of good is perfect.10200:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,460You are looking to submit a good grant.10300:06:46,460 --> 00:06:50,640And over time, when you have to go back to the next submission, it will be better.10400:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,260It will be better.10500:06:52,260 --> 00:06:56,200But sometimes I hear people saying, well, if I just wait and give it a few more months,10600:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,200it'll be better.10700:06:57,200 --> 00:07:03,600And the reality of our very busy lives as clinicians is that there is no time like the10800:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,540present and tomorrow is really not promised.10900:07:07,540 --> 00:07:13,480And so if we've made a commitment to a certain grant submission, it is probably more important11000:07:13,480 --> 00:07:19,760that we keep the commitment than that we wait till tomorrow for a better opportunity because11100:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600there's no guarantee of a better opportunity.11200:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,280So that's number one.11300:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,600You've made a commitment to this opportunity window.11400:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,480Number two is the feedback potential.11500:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,560Okay.11600:07:32,560 --> 00:07:39,120You cannot get feedback until you submitted something.11700:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,840And submitting the grant allows you to receive feedback from reviewers.11800:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,600Now, here's the thing.11900:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,960We don't always love feedback from reviewers.12000:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,700In fact, some of us would prefer to do without the feedback from reviewers because we kind12100:07:52,700 --> 00:07:53,700of find it annoying.12200:07:53,700 --> 00:07:54,700We do.12300:07:54,700 --> 00:07:57,400It's like, huh, really?12400:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,200Didn't you see where I wrote XYZ?12500:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,000Yeah, I don't know.12600:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,940You know, it's a love-hate relationship with reviewers until you're a reviewer yourself12700:08:04,940 --> 00:08:06,760and you're like, oh yeah, I love reviewers.12800:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,040They're so awesome because of course you're awesome.12900:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,680But the potential to get feedback from reviewers is very important.13000:08:13,680 --> 00:08:20,800It's important because honestly, when we finally shake out of the feeling bad about comments13100:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,960that reviewers left for us that we could have done without, when we really sit down and13200:08:25,960 --> 00:08:31,080look at it, we realize that it's really an opportunity, an opportunity to clarify what13300:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,080we were thinking.13400:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,040Like, we may have said it, but maybe we didn't say it clearly enough.13500:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,760It's an opportunity to do that.13600:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,240And many times, reviewers' comments actually do improve our work.13700:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,800When we really sit down and think about it, it really, really, really does improve our13800:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,040work.13900:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,720And even if we don't want to admit it, it really is true.14000:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,400And so submitting a grant gives you the opportunity to receive feedback.14100:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,480And that feedback will help you for the next submission.14200:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,760And so submitting a grant is not always about this particular submission because very rarely14300:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,920do you get a grant the very first time it goes out.14400:09:07,920 --> 00:09:08,920It can happen.14500:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,920It has happened.14600:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,320It's great when it happens, but many times what happens is you submit something that's14700:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,320not near perfect, and then you get the kind of feedback that allows you to shape it again.14800:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,680And because you're not starting from scratch, you actually do have time to really reshape14900:09:22,680 --> 00:09:23,960it.15000:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,440And it increases your chances of being successful eventually.15100:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,200But more important than just the success, and you're like, what's more important than15200:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,540getting the money?15300:09:34,540 --> 00:09:37,560More important than the success and getting the money is actually moving your project15400:09:37,560 --> 00:09:40,360forward, moving your research program forward.15500:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,160And the kind of feedback that you do get from reviewers helps you move the research program15600:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,160forward.15700:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,160Ultimately, it helps you get funded.15800:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,280But really importantly, it really helps you to think critically about the work you're15900:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,400doing and how it could be improved.16000:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,400Okay.16100:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,640So you want to make sure that you submit the grant so that you can get feedback because16200:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,600if you don't submit the grant, then you don't get feedback.16300:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,600And that is a problem.16400:10:02,600 --> 00:10:03,600All right.16500:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,080Number three is experience.16600:10:07,080 --> 00:10:12,400You know, one of the things I've talked about in a prior episode is that people who submit16700:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,640grants get grants.16800:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,080And it really is true.16900:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,440If you don't submit grants, you don't get grants.17000:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,280But if you submit them, okay, it's not guaranteed that you'll get them.17100:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,600But the very act of submitting grants allows you to improve the process of submitting grants.17200:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,360And so ultimately, number three is experience.17300:10:30,360 --> 00:10:37,400You get valuable experience every time you prepare and submit a full proposal.17400:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,800Now, what's interesting is that our ability to write and submit proposals kind of depends17500:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,800on the quality of our writing.17600:10:45,800 --> 00:10:46,800And we're really good writers.17700:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,960By the time you get to the place in your career where you're like, I'm going to be submitting17800:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,800grants regularly, you're a pretty good writer because you've had so much opportunity to17900:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,880practice your writing.18000:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,920You practice a lot of writing in college.18100:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,840You certainly did it in med school, and as a resident, you wrote trillions of notes probably.18200:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,360So your writing has always been getting better and better.18300:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,780But submitting grants is a different kind of writing.18400:11:09,780 --> 00:11:13,240It's a salesmanship type of writing, but it's not just salesmanship.18500:11:13,240 --> 00:11:21,680It's really being very clear about what you are saying and communicating that very clearly.18600:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,240It's a specialized type of writing.18700:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,320And so the more you do it, the better you get, and the more you pull together different18800:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,440components to submit a full proposal, the better you get at doing that.18900:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,720And so there is value in the experience.19000:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,400A grant that is not finished, that is like you get it so far and then you're like, I'm19100:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,560not going to submit, doesn't give you the same experience as a grant that you take to19200:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,040the finish line.19300:11:48,040 --> 00:11:54,400Crossing the finish line is an important experience to gain because then you're able to do it19400:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,400again and again and again and again.19500:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,480And the more you do it, the more some things become kind of automatic and so that you're19600:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,720able to really focus your energies on the things that really matter.19700:12:06,720 --> 00:12:11,180For example, there are lots of supporting documents that people kind of are frustrated19800:12:11,180 --> 00:12:15,960by many times and they're still important because they are part of the whole grant.19900:12:15,960 --> 00:12:22,800But really, they're not as much the critical thinking components as in the research strategy20000:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,380or like writing the specific aims.20100:12:25,380 --> 00:12:30,600And so the more experience you get, the better it is you get at those things that seem more20200:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,440routine so that you can really focus your time and your energy on the things that are20300:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,140most critical, the things that only you can do.20400:12:40,140 --> 00:12:44,600And over time, as you become more and more experienced and as you grow in your research20500:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,640program, you actually might even have help to do those components of the grant that are20600:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,280not like the critical research strategy.20700:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,160And so it's important to gain the experience because you get better and as people come20800:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520in to help you, you're able to show them what to do.20900:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,800So the experience is important.21000:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,240Number four is networking.21100:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,640Yep.21200:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,120Writing grants helps you in your networking.21300:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,600You know why?21400:13:12,600 --> 00:13:19,040Every time you submit a grant, someone's going to review it.21500:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,520Everybody the people who review it score you high enough so that you are discussed or at21600:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,360least your grant is discussed.21700:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,360They're not discussing you.21800:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,480They don't even know you.21900:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,600But your grant is discussed in an open forum and people get to know who you are.22000:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,240Very rarely, very rarely are grants review processes blinded.22100:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,760So everybody knows the investigators.22200:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,160And so it's one of those networking things where you're not even in the room, but your22300:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,500grant is speaking for you.22400:13:46,500 --> 00:13:51,560And so the more your grant is coming before reviewers, the more people get to know what22500:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,200you're working on, what you're interested in.22600:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,000And honestly, you know, people can't tell you they reviewed your grant.22700:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,760They're not allowed to do that.22800:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,360But they remember.22900:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,960And so when it comes to thinking about who's going to give a talk for XYZ and they remember23000:14:07,960 --> 00:14:14,640that, oh, you have this idea that you submitted, it allows you to, in a sense, network when23100:14:14,640 --> 00:14:15,640you're not in the room.23200:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,080So literally, your grant is speaking on your behalf.23300:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,760Now, not ideally.23400:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,200Your grant is such that people are drawn to your work.23500:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,360It may be that your writing is so bad or at least not in the way that the reviewers want.23600:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,960They're like, I don't know who this person is, but I really don't want to talk to this23700:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,560person or I don't want to be associated with this person because the grant is so bad.23800:14:40,560 --> 00:14:41,960It's rarely, it rarely happens.23900:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,080I think for the most part, it's just your name keeps coming up and I think it's important.24000:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,880So let's just say your grant is silently networking for you even when you're not in the room.24100:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,880Okay.24200:14:51,880 --> 00:14:59,960Another thing that submitting the grant allows you to do is it allows you to gain visibility.24300:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,880And the reason it allows you to gain visibility is because the thing about your grant is that24400:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,120it's, it's like, it's like finishing.24500:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,920It's like finishing your thought, right?24600:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,080It's completing your sentence, completing the thought that you have about the work that24700:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,080you're doing, right?24800:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,160You're creating the future and you're saying, this is what we want to do and this is how24900:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,160we want to do it.25000:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,360Because of that, your research is moving forward.25100:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,240Every time you are pulling together the grant, you're pulling together your preliminary data,25200:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,740you're saying, this is what we want to do.25300:15:29,740 --> 00:15:34,040You kind of are forcing yourself to advance your research because you're putting the kind25400:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,200of thought into it that allows you to go to the next project and the next project and25500:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160the next project after that.25600:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,020And then you become the expert because you know what you're writing about this thing ad25700:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,360nauseam and that's assuming that you're actually focused.25800:15:46,360 --> 00:15:47,520Please be focused.25900:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,600Please choose one area of study and focus in on it and get it going.26000:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,240And it allows you to really become the expert.26100:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,200And because of that, you're able to give talks in the area, you write papers in the area26200:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,640and you're able really to become known.26300:16:03,640 --> 00:16:11,240And so the fact of continuously being able to submit grants and finishing your grants,26400:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,560submitting them, getting them to the finish line allows you to create stuff from that26500:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,800because your grant always does double, triple, quadruple duty if you're doing it correctly.26600:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,760One grant submission is never the end.26700:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,280It's always great.26800:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,120Now let's take the background and significance and write a great review article.26900:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,360Now let's take the background and significance and give a talk somewhere.27000:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,440So your grant, your grant writing, the thought, the finished sentences, the finished thought27100:16:39,440 --> 00:16:47,140that goes into the grant allows you to really parlay the work into visibility within the27200:16:47,140 --> 00:16:48,760scientific community.27300:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,460And that could lead you to new collaborations.27400:16:51,460 --> 00:16:54,200It could lead you to new opportunities.27500:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,200It's really amazing.27600:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,440Yes, please submit that grant.27700:16:58,440 --> 00:17:04,360Okay, number six is pilot data.27800:17:04,360 --> 00:17:08,800And by pilot data, I mean that whenever you go to submit a grant, you really do need to27900:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,080demonstrate feasibility or demonstrate premise.28000:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,600And some of that you do with your preliminary data, right?28100:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,920And even when there are grants that are like, oh, no preliminary data is needed, you know,28200:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,360you still have to demonstrate feasibility for which you at least have to say, okay,28300:17:26,360 --> 00:17:31,480well, we've used these methods before, or we have access to this person who's used these28400:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,960methods.28500:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,040And it's really helpful because whether the grant is funded or not, you can use that information28600:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,180for another thing, for the next grant, right?28700:17:41,180 --> 00:17:47,400So all the things that you gather to demonstrate the feasibility of the work or demonstrate28800:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,820the premise for the work can be parlayed into another project.28900:17:51,820 --> 00:17:56,620So even if this one's not funded, the fact that you took all the time to pull it together29000:17:56,620 --> 00:17:58,760means it's already pulled together.29100:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,140And the next time you need to write something that's similar, maybe even if not exactly29200:18:03,140 --> 00:18:08,040the same, you kind of already have this preliminary data that you've pulled.29300:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,640You kind of already have this preliminary data that's pulled.29400:18:11,640 --> 00:18:12,640And you know what?29500:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,360You're going to pull it together into a paper eventually, but you are able to use it for29600:18:16,360 --> 00:18:17,360the next grant.29700:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,680And then it doesn't take as much to pull it together because the first time you're pulling29800:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,480it together, it takes time.29900:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,680You're like, I'm not even sure I'm going to have it all together in time for the grant30000:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,040submission.30100:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,400But ultimately, you do the work, you pull it together, and it's available to you to30200:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,920use in the next submission.30300:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,880Okay, so that's pilot data.30400:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,840Number seven is time efficiency.30500:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,760Okay, so going back to the beginning, I said, you know, there was a situation where I'd30600:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,120spent all this time working on the grant.30700:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,640And then I got to the point where it was almost time to submit.30800:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,160And it was like, should I pull out now?30900:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,520And I really did feel like, wow, I spent a lot of time on this grant already.31000:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,760I didn't want to spend more time on it.31100:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,960And in reality, if you don't submit, then you're kind of doing double duty and double31200:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,720duty without feedback.31300:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,960What you don't want to do is double duty without feedback.31400:19:09,960 --> 00:19:15,480And so it is more time efficient to submit a grant you've committed to than to prolong31500:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,840the submission and just keep working on it.31600:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,520Because here's the challenge.31700:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,000And I think this is really important.31800:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,200This is something I've really learned from my grant writing mentors is that you just31900:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,760don't know exactly what's going to fly.32000:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,760You don't.32100:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,160You think you do.32200:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,640You feel sure that you are responsive to the funding opportunity announcement or to the32300:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,400RFA.32400:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,000But sometimes you just don't know how the reviewers are going to take your work.32500:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,080And so you want to know as soon as possible.32600:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,080You want to know.32700:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,880And if you wait two cycles to find out that you are heading in the wrong direction, oh,32800:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,760what a waste of time.32900:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,120And so what you don't want to do is spend so much time perfecting something that people33000:19:56,120 --> 00:19:57,120don't want.33100:19:57,120 --> 00:20:02,620Now, ideally, before you put the proposal together, you've spoken to a program officer.33200:20:02,620 --> 00:20:05,440You have a sense of what the review committee wants.33300:20:05,440 --> 00:20:12,020You might have some quote unquote inside information, but you don't know until you submit.33400:20:12,020 --> 00:20:16,520And so it's actually more time efficient to submit the proposal than to defer it by a33500:20:16,520 --> 00:20:17,740couple of more months.33600:20:17,740 --> 00:20:18,740Because here's the thing.33700:20:18,740 --> 00:20:23,120You're just going to keep working on this grant until it gets submitted.33800:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,100And you could spend six months working on it or you could spend three months working33900:20:27,100 --> 00:20:28,100on it.34000:20:28,100 --> 00:20:29,100You decide.34100:20:29,100 --> 00:20:34,080But the question is, does six months worth of writing get you more than three months34200:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,080of writing?34300:20:35,080 --> 00:20:41,360And most of the time, really, you get more out of committing and submitting.34400:20:41,360 --> 00:20:45,440The second thing that time efficiency gives you is the next time you go to revise the34500:20:45,440 --> 00:20:51,660grants, because invariably, most of your grants will need revisions, it's so much more time34600:20:51,660 --> 00:20:55,160efficient the second time around because you already have something you finished and you34700:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,180already have some feedback on it.34800:20:57,180 --> 00:21:01,720So when you're going to resubmit the second time, to some extent, it's the same as if34900:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,600you did all six months.35000:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,000So it's three months the first time, maybe three months the second time around actually35100:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,760shorter because you're not spending as much time writing the second time around.35200:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,360And a lot of the documents have already been created.35300:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,840And so it's so much more time efficient to revise it when it comes back because you've35400:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,320already done it.35500:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,420But it's less time efficient if you didn't do it the first time and you just keep working35600:21:25,420 --> 00:21:29,000on it and then you don't have the feedback that allows you to really drive the proposal35700:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000home.35800:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,920So it is time efficient to submit rather than to defer your submission.35900:21:34,920 --> 00:21:35,920Okay.36000:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,200So I've talked about seven reasons why you should submit that grant, why you should not36100:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,080delay, why you should not push it off until the next cycle.36200:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,520Number one is because you know what, you've made a commitment to an opportunity window36300:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000and you don't want that opportunity window to pass you by.36400:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000Number two, the feedback potential.36500:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,560A grant not submitted is a grant that you can't get feedback on.36600:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,840And so the feedback potential really helps you to advance your work and to submit a proposal36700:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,960that actually will get funded.36800:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,380Number three is the experience.36900:22:05,380 --> 00:22:09,240You know what, the more you write and submit, the better you get at writing and submitting.37000:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,720And so actually allowing yourself to get to the finish line is so important.37100:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,720You want the experience.37200:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,680Number four is networking.37300:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,080Your grant is kind of speaking on your behalf.37400:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,240Hopefully it's good so that it's not judged, it's not being held against you, but your37500:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,680work is good, your science is good.37600:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,480And so allow your grant to go out into the world and speak to people that you don't even37700:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,480know.37800:22:31,480 --> 00:22:32,480It's so awesome.37900:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,680Number five is the visibility.38000:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,080Because you are continuing to pull these ideas out of yourself and out of your networks to38100:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,480create compelling grant proposals, you're able to parlay them into more.38200:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,840And so the visibility is good for you, it's good for your science, it's good for your38300:22:47,840 --> 00:22:48,840research program.38400:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,160Number six is pilot data.38500:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,240You are able to pull together the preliminary data, which does double duty on the next grant38600:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,720submission or even it allows you to pull it together quickly enough to actually get papers38700:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,200moving forward.38800:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,240And finally, it's time efficiency.38900:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,120Instead of spending six to seven or eight months trying to perfect a grant, you spend39000:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,840three months, you send it out, you get the feedback, and then it takes less time to pull39100:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,280it together for the resubmission.39200:23:14,280 --> 00:23:20,040Okay, so those are seven reasons you should think about as to why you should submit the39300:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,440grant and not defer, not wait for a perfect time because there's no perfect time.39400:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,480Submitting a grant proposal is kind of like having a baby.39500:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,960It's like, oh, there's no perfect time, just do it anyway.39600:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,000Okay, I know I lost most of you there.39700:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600But please submit the grant, don't defer.39800:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,880All right, that's the end of today's episode.39900:23:37,880 --> 00:23:44,400If you are looking to help out a fellow clinician scientist who might have a similar concern,40000:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,240should I submit, should I not submit, please forward them this episode because it's really40100:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,600going to be helpful to them as I believe and I hope it's been helpful to you.40200:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,720It's been a pleasure talking with you today.40300:23:55,720 --> 00:24:05,920I look forward to talking with you again the next time.40400:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,280Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic40500:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,480clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they40600:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,080have a mentor.40700:24:18,080 --> 00:24:24,040If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.40800:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,920Someone else needs to hear it.40900:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,960So take a minute right now and share it.41000:24:29,960 --> 00:24:35,440As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation41100:24:35,440 --> 00:24:55,640of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.