Don't defer that grant submission

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:59,600 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,920 Welcome. 13 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,760 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a privilege to be speaking with you today. 14 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:07,760 Thank you for listening. 15 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:14,720 Today, I'm talking about why you should submit that grant, why you should submit the grant. 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,600 And the reason I thought to speak to you about this today is because recently I was working 17 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:25,560 towards a grant submission, and it was about maybe 10 days to the final grant submission. 18 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,600 And, you know, we have an institutional deadline before the actual grant submission, and our 19 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,120 institutional deadline is a couple of weeks before the grant is actually due. 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:39,280 So sometimes it doesn't feel like a real deadline, but it clearly is. 21 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,800 And so it's 10 days probably to this deadline, and still feeling fuzzy on some of my aims, 22 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,040 actually one of my aims specifically. 23 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,000 And the person I was working with, who is a wonderful grant writing specialist who's 24 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,880 phenomenal, is like, well, what do you think? 25 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,040 Maybe you should defer the submission until the next time. 26 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,560 And I remember thinking, oh my goodness, that's such a great idea, because, you know, to be 27 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,800 honest, I just needed relief from this grant writing. 28 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,360 And I was like, hmm, how about I don't submit the grant? 29 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,720 But the more I thought about it, the more I thought about how much time had already gone 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,200 into submitting the grant, the fact that I'd already made a commitment to submitting the 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,000 grant, and the fact that I also had other grants coming. 32 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,960 I was like, well, you know, this grant is, you know, it's going to get out of the way, 33 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,760 and then there's another grant coming after it. 34 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:33,120 But if I don't submit this grant, then I have to move this grant to the next cycle. 35 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,400 And it took some time and sat with myself, because I'm one of those people who really 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,720 needs time between the need for a decision and the making of the decision. 37 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,520 And I really, it takes me time to get in touch with how I really feel about things. 38 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:50,440 And I remember thinking, I've made a commitment, and I'm going to see this commitment through, 39 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,080 because if I have to spend any more time beyond this time on this grant, it will be overwhelming. 40 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,240 I need a break from it. 41 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:02,480 And so I decided to go forward and I submitted the grants, and things came together as they 42 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:06,520 tend to, and forced by a deadline, they came together, and I finally had the kind of clarity 43 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,600 I was looking for. 44 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,820 But I want to talk about this whole thing about whether or not you submit the grant, 45 00:03:12,820 --> 00:03:15,600 because sometimes there's this sense that it's got to be a perfect grant. 46 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,180 And if it's not perfect, if it's less than perfect, why bother? 47 00:03:19,180 --> 00:03:22,120 Because the competition for grants are, it's so stiff. 48 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:27,400 And if the competition for grant writing is stiff, or submitting proposals is stiff, then 49 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,840 you shouldn't submit anything less than the best. 50 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,520 But I'm here to tell you that you should submit anyway. 51 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,280 Whether you think it's your absolute best product or you don't, I'm here to make an 52 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,360 argument for why you should go ahead and submit the grant. 53 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:48,520 And so I'm going to tell you seven reasons, today I'm telling you seven compelling reasons 54 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,140 why you should consider submitting the grant. 55 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:56,080 And this is, you know, if you don't feel it's perfect and you're like, this is not the best 56 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,720 grant I could have written, I still feel like it's important to submit it. 57 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,480 And here are seven reasons why. 58 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:10,280 The first thing is that grant writing is a commitment. 59 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,360 Or maybe I should say proposal submission is a commitment, because as a clinician scientist, 60 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,360 you're always writing grants. 61 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,760 I mean, for the most part, you are always kind of moving your science forward and looking 62 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,320 for who's going to be a funder to fund your program. 63 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:30,340 And so as long as you are a clinician scientist and grant writing is just what you do. 64 00:04:30,340 --> 00:04:36,880 And so when you look on the horizon and you see different proposals that are, you know, 65 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:41,640 coming out, requests for proposals coming out, you choose which ones you're going to 66 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:42,640 submit to. 67 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560 It really is a commitment that you're making. 68 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:52,840 And in making this commitment, everything in you rises to complete this proposal submission 69 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:54,940 because you've made a commitment. 70 00:04:54,940 --> 00:05:01,960 And so because you've made a commitment, then it's important to meet the commitment. 71 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,000 And the commitment has a finite window. 72 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,960 And so, you know, grants have submission cycles. 73 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,000 And the thing about grants is that there are rarely opportunities that are once in a lifetime 74 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,560 opportunities. 75 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,080 Even every once in a lifetime opportunity will come again. 76 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,200 So there's no real missed grant deadline. 77 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,840 That's just, oh, you don't get to submit for a few more months or oh, maybe this is an 78 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:23,160 opportunity that comes once a year. 79 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,160 And so the reality is that there are opportunity windows that you have to submit grants. 80 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,440 And if you miss the window, you know what? 81 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,420 The window will come again. 82 00:05:31,420 --> 00:05:35,400 But who you are today, where your science is today, where everything is today is not 83 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,400 the same as it will be, you know, a couple of months from now, a year from now. 84 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,420 You won't even be the same person. 85 00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:46,040 In the process of preparing and writing grant proposals, you're transforming each time. 86 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,960 So you're not going to be the same person. 87 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,880 And so what you want to do is make a commitment to this opportunity window. 88 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,520 You make a commitment and you meet that commitment. 89 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,400 And one of the important reasons for submitting the grant, for meeting the commitment is because 90 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,660 you're really demonstrating to yourself that you're someone who meets commitments. 91 00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:06,660 You are. 92 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:09,480 And it's important because there will always be a reason not to submit a grant. 93 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:17,600 There will always be the not so perfect, perfect, you know, environment for grant submission. 94 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,420 And in reality, it's just you just bite the bullet and you do it. 95 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:27,660 And so I think it's important because you've made a commitment and submitting proposals 96 00:06:27,660 --> 00:06:30,080 is really about meeting commitments. 97 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,800 And there's an opportunity window where if you fail to meet this commitment, then you 98 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,400 have to defer it. 99 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,600 And it really means you're working on this grant for so, so, so much longer than you 100 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,540 really want to be. 101 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:44,080 And people tell you the enemy of good is perfect. 102 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,460 You are looking to submit a good grant. 103 00:06:46,460 --> 00:06:50,640 And over time, when you have to go back to the next submission, it will be better. 104 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:52,260 It will be better. 105 00:06:52,260 --> 00:06:56,200 But sometimes I hear people saying, well, if I just wait and give it a few more months, 106 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,200 it'll be better. 107 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:03,600 And the reality of our very busy lives as clinicians is that there is no time like the 108 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,540 present and tomorrow is really not promised. 109 00:07:07,540 --> 00:07:13,480 And so if we've made a commitment to a certain grant submission, it is probably more important 110 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:19,760 that we keep the commitment than that we wait till tomorrow for a better opportunity because 111 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 there's no guarantee of a better opportunity. 112 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,280 So that's number one. 113 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,600 You've made a commitment to this opportunity window. 114 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,480 Number two is the feedback potential. 115 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,560 Okay. 116 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:39,120 You cannot get feedback until you submitted something. 117 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,840 And submitting the grant allows you to receive feedback from reviewers. 118 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,600 Now, here's the thing. 119 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,960 We don't always love feedback from reviewers. 120 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,700 In fact, some of us would prefer to do without the feedback from reviewers because we kind 121 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:53,700 of find it annoying. 122 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:54,700 We do. 123 00:07:54,700 --> 00:07:57,400 It's like, huh, really? 124 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,200 Didn't you see where I wrote XYZ? 125 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,000 Yeah, I don't know. 126 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,940 You know, it's a love-hate relationship with reviewers until you're a reviewer yourself 127 00:08:04,940 --> 00:08:06,760 and you're like, oh yeah, I love reviewers. 128 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,040 They're so awesome because of course you're awesome. 129 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,680 But the potential to get feedback from reviewers is very important. 130 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:20,800 It's important because honestly, when we finally shake out of the feeling bad about comments 131 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,960 that reviewers left for us that we could have done without, when we really sit down and 132 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:31,080 look at it, we realize that it's really an opportunity, an opportunity to clarify what 133 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,080 we were thinking. 134 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,040 Like, we may have said it, but maybe we didn't say it clearly enough. 135 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,760 It's an opportunity to do that. 136 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,240 And many times, reviewers' comments actually do improve our work. 137 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,800 When we really sit down and think about it, it really, really, really does improve our 138 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,040 work. 139 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,720 And even if we don't want to admit it, it really is true. 140 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:56,400 And so submitting a grant gives you the opportunity to receive feedback. 141 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,480 And that feedback will help you for the next submission. 142 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:05,760 And so submitting a grant is not always about this particular submission because very rarely 143 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,920 do you get a grant the very first time it goes out. 144 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:08,920 It can happen. 145 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,920 It has happened. 146 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,320 It's great when it happens, but many times what happens is you submit something that's 147 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,320 not near perfect, and then you get the kind of feedback that allows you to shape it again. 148 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,680 And because you're not starting from scratch, you actually do have time to really reshape 149 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:23,960 it. 150 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,440 And it increases your chances of being successful eventually. 151 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,200 But more important than just the success, and you're like, what's more important than 152 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,540 getting the money? 153 00:09:34,540 --> 00:09:37,560 More important than the success and getting the money is actually moving your project 154 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:40,360 forward, moving your research program forward. 155 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,160 And the kind of feedback that you do get from reviewers helps you move the research program 156 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:46,160 forward. 157 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,160 Ultimately, it helps you get funded. 158 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,280 But really importantly, it really helps you to think critically about the work you're 159 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,400 doing and how it could be improved. 160 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,400 Okay. 161 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,640 So you want to make sure that you submit the grant so that you can get feedback because 162 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,600 if you don't submit the grant, then you don't get feedback. 163 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,600 And that is a problem. 164 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:03,600 All right. 165 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,080 Number three is experience. 166 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:12,400 You know, one of the things I've talked about in a prior episode is that people who submit 167 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,640 grants get grants. 168 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,080 And it really is true. 169 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,440 If you don't submit grants, you don't get grants. 170 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,280 But if you submit them, okay, it's not guaranteed that you'll get them. 171 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,600 But the very act of submitting grants allows you to improve the process of submitting grants. 172 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,360 And so ultimately, number three is experience. 173 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:37,400 You get valuable experience every time you prepare and submit a full proposal. 174 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:43,800 Now, what's interesting is that our ability to write and submit proposals kind of depends 175 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,800 on the quality of our writing. 176 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:46,800 And we're really good writers. 177 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,960 By the time you get to the place in your career where you're like, I'm going to be submitting 178 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,800 grants regularly, you're a pretty good writer because you've had so much opportunity to 179 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,880 practice your writing. 180 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,920 You practice a lot of writing in college. 181 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,840 You certainly did it in med school, and as a resident, you wrote trillions of notes probably. 182 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,360 So your writing has always been getting better and better. 183 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,780 But submitting grants is a different kind of writing. 184 00:11:09,780 --> 00:11:13,240 It's a salesmanship type of writing, but it's not just salesmanship. 185 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:21,680 It's really being very clear about what you are saying and communicating that very clearly. 186 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,240 It's a specialized type of writing. 187 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,320 And so the more you do it, the better you get, and the more you pull together different 188 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,440 components to submit a full proposal, the better you get at doing that. 189 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,720 And so there is value in the experience. 190 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,400 A grant that is not finished, that is like you get it so far and then you're like, I'm 191 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,560 not going to submit, doesn't give you the same experience as a grant that you take to 192 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,040 the finish line. 193 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:54,400 Crossing the finish line is an important experience to gain because then you're able to do it 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,400 again and again and again and again. 195 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,480 And the more you do it, the more some things become kind of automatic and so that you're 196 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,720 able to really focus your energies on the things that really matter. 197 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:11,180 For example, there are lots of supporting documents that people kind of are frustrated 198 00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:15,960 by many times and they're still important because they are part of the whole grant. 199 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:22,800 But really, they're not as much the critical thinking components as in the research strategy 200 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,380 or like writing the specific aims. 201 00:12:25,380 --> 00:12:30,600 And so the more experience you get, the better it is you get at those things that seem more 202 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,440 routine so that you can really focus your time and your energy on the things that are 203 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,140 most critical, the things that only you can do. 204 00:12:40,140 --> 00:12:44,600 And over time, as you become more and more experienced and as you grow in your research 205 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:49,640 program, you actually might even have help to do those components of the grant that are 206 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,280 not like the critical research strategy. 207 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,160 And so it's important to gain the experience because you get better and as people come 208 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520 in to help you, you're able to show them what to do. 209 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,800 So the experience is important. 210 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,240 Number four is networking. 211 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,640 Yep. 212 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,120 Writing grants helps you in your networking. 213 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:12,600 You know why? 214 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:19,040 Every time you submit a grant, someone's going to review it. 215 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,520 Everybody the people who review it score you high enough so that you are discussed or at 216 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,360 least your grant is discussed. 217 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,360 They're not discussing you. 218 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:27,480 They don't even know you. 219 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,600 But your grant is discussed in an open forum and people get to know who you are. 220 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:38,240 Very rarely, very rarely are grants review processes blinded. 221 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,760 So everybody knows the investigators. 222 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,160 And so it's one of those networking things where you're not even in the room, but your 223 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,500 grant is speaking for you. 224 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:51,560 And so the more your grant is coming before reviewers, the more people get to know what 225 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,200 you're working on, what you're interested in. 226 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,000 And honestly, you know, people can't tell you they reviewed your grant. 227 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,760 They're not allowed to do that. 228 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,360 But they remember. 229 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,960 And so when it comes to thinking about who's going to give a talk for XYZ and they remember 230 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:14,640 that, oh, you have this idea that you submitted, it allows you to, in a sense, network when 231 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:15,640 you're not in the room. 232 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,080 So literally, your grant is speaking on your behalf. 233 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,760 Now, not ideally. 234 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,200 Your grant is such that people are drawn to your work. 235 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:31,360 It may be that your writing is so bad or at least not in the way that the reviewers want. 236 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:36,960 They're like, I don't know who this person is, but I really don't want to talk to this 237 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,560 person or I don't want to be associated with this person because the grant is so bad. 238 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:41,960 It's rarely, it rarely happens. 239 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:46,080 I think for the most part, it's just your name keeps coming up and I think it's important. 240 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,880 So let's just say your grant is silently networking for you even when you're not in the room. 241 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,880 Okay. 242 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:59,960 Another thing that submitting the grant allows you to do is it allows you to gain visibility. 243 00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,880 And the reason it allows you to gain visibility is because the thing about your grant is that 244 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,120 it's, it's like, it's like finishing. 245 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,920 It's like finishing your thought, right? 246 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,080 It's completing your sentence, completing the thought that you have about the work that 247 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,080 you're doing, right? 248 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,160 You're creating the future and you're saying, this is what we want to do and this is how 249 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,160 we want to do it. 250 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,360 Because of that, your research is moving forward. 251 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Every time you are pulling together the grant, you're pulling together your preliminary data, 252 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,740 you're saying, this is what we want to do. 253 00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:34,040 You kind of are forcing yourself to advance your research because you're putting the kind 254 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,200 of thought into it that allows you to go to the next project and the next project and 255 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,160 the next project after that. 256 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,020 And then you become the expert because you know what you're writing about this thing ad 257 00:15:43,020 --> 00:15:46,360 nauseam and that's assuming that you're actually focused. 258 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:47,520 Please be focused. 259 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,600 Please choose one area of study and focus in on it and get it going. 260 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,240 And it allows you to really become the expert. 261 00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,200 And because of that, you're able to give talks in the area, you write papers in the area 262 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,640 and you're able really to become known. 263 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:11,240 And so the fact of continuously being able to submit grants and finishing your grants, 264 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,560 submitting them, getting them to the finish line allows you to create stuff from that 265 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:21,800 because your grant always does double, triple, quadruple duty if you're doing it correctly. 266 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,760 One grant submission is never the end. 267 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,280 It's always great. 268 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,120 Now let's take the background and significance and write a great review article. 269 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,360 Now let's take the background and significance and give a talk somewhere. 270 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:39,440 So your grant, your grant writing, the thought, the finished sentences, the finished thought 271 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:47,140 that goes into the grant allows you to really parlay the work into visibility within the 272 00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:48,760 scientific community. 273 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,460 And that could lead you to new collaborations. 274 00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:54,200 It could lead you to new opportunities. 275 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:55,200 It's really amazing. 276 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,440 Yes, please submit that grant. 277 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:04,360 Okay, number six is pilot data. 278 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:08,800 And by pilot data, I mean that whenever you go to submit a grant, you really do need to 279 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,080 demonstrate feasibility or demonstrate premise. 280 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,600 And some of that you do with your preliminary data, right? 281 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,920 And even when there are grants that are like, oh, no preliminary data is needed, you know, 282 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:26,360 you still have to demonstrate feasibility for which you at least have to say, okay, 283 00:17:26,360 --> 00:17:31,480 well, we've used these methods before, or we have access to this person who's used these 284 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,960 methods. 285 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,040 And it's really helpful because whether the grant is funded or not, you can use that information 286 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,180 for another thing, for the next grant, right? 287 00:17:41,180 --> 00:17:47,400 So all the things that you gather to demonstrate the feasibility of the work or demonstrate 288 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,820 the premise for the work can be parlayed into another project. 289 00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:56,620 So even if this one's not funded, the fact that you took all the time to pull it together 290 00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:58,760 means it's already pulled together. 291 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,140 And the next time you need to write something that's similar, maybe even if not exactly 292 00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:08,040 the same, you kind of already have this preliminary data that you've pulled. 293 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,640 You kind of already have this preliminary data that's pulled. 294 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:12,640 And you know what? 295 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,360 You're going to pull it together into a paper eventually, but you are able to use it for 296 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:17,360 the next grant. 297 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:21,680 And then it doesn't take as much to pull it together because the first time you're pulling 298 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,480 it together, it takes time. 299 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,680 You're like, I'm not even sure I'm going to have it all together in time for the grant 300 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,040 submission. 301 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,400 But ultimately, you do the work, you pull it together, and it's available to you to 302 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,920 use in the next submission. 303 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,880 Okay, so that's pilot data. 304 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,840 Number seven is time efficiency. 305 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,760 Okay, so going back to the beginning, I said, you know, there was a situation where I'd 306 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,120 spent all this time working on the grant. 307 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,640 And then I got to the point where it was almost time to submit. 308 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,160 And it was like, should I pull out now? 309 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,520 And I really did feel like, wow, I spent a lot of time on this grant already. 310 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,760 I didn't want to spend more time on it. 311 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,960 And in reality, if you don't submit, then you're kind of doing double duty and double 312 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,720 duty without feedback. 313 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,960 What you don't want to do is double duty without feedback. 314 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:15,480 And so it is more time efficient to submit a grant you've committed to than to prolong 315 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,840 the submission and just keep working on it. 316 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,520 Because here's the challenge. 317 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,000 And I think this is really important. 318 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,200 This is something I've really learned from my grant writing mentors is that you just 319 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,760 don't know exactly what's going to fly. 320 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,760 You don't. 321 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,160 You think you do. 322 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,640 You feel sure that you are responsive to the funding opportunity announcement or to the 323 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,400 RFA. 324 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,000 But sometimes you just don't know how the reviewers are going to take your work. 325 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,080 And so you want to know as soon as possible. 326 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,080 You want to know. 327 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,880 And if you wait two cycles to find out that you are heading in the wrong direction, oh, 328 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,760 what a waste of time. 329 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,120 And so what you don't want to do is spend so much time perfecting something that people 330 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:57,120 don't want. 331 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:02,620 Now, ideally, before you put the proposal together, you've spoken to a program officer. 332 00:20:02,620 --> 00:20:05,440 You have a sense of what the review committee wants. 333 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:12,020 You might have some quote unquote inside information, but you don't know until you submit. 334 00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:16,520 And so it's actually more time efficient to submit the proposal than to defer it by a 335 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:17,740 couple of more months. 336 00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:18,740 Because here's the thing. 337 00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:23,120 You're just going to keep working on this grant until it gets submitted. 338 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,100 And you could spend six months working on it or you could spend three months working 339 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:28,100 on it. 340 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:29,100 You decide. 341 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:34,080 But the question is, does six months worth of writing get you more than three months 342 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,080 of writing? 343 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:41,360 And most of the time, really, you get more out of committing and submitting. 344 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:45,440 The second thing that time efficiency gives you is the next time you go to revise the 345 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:51,660 grants, because invariably, most of your grants will need revisions, it's so much more time 346 00:20:51,660 --> 00:20:55,160 efficient the second time around because you already have something you finished and you 347 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,180 already have some feedback on it. 348 00:20:57,180 --> 00:21:01,720 So when you're going to resubmit the second time, to some extent, it's the same as if 349 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,600 you did all six months. 350 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,000 So it's three months the first time, maybe three months the second time around actually 351 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,760 shorter because you're not spending as much time writing the second time around. 352 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,360 And a lot of the documents have already been created. 353 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,840 And so it's so much more time efficient to revise it when it comes back because you've 354 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,320 already done it. 355 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,420 But it's less time efficient if you didn't do it the first time and you just keep working 356 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:29,000 on it and then you don't have the feedback that allows you to really drive the proposal 357 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000 home. 358 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,920 So it is time efficient to submit rather than to defer your submission. 359 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:35,920 Okay. 360 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,200 So I've talked about seven reasons why you should submit that grant, why you should not 361 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,080 delay, why you should not push it off until the next cycle. 362 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,520 Number one is because you know what, you've made a commitment to an opportunity window 363 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000 and you don't want that opportunity window to pass you by. 364 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000 Number two, the feedback potential. 365 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,560 A grant not submitted is a grant that you can't get feedback on. 366 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:01,840 And so the feedback potential really helps you to advance your work and to submit a proposal 367 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,960 that actually will get funded. 368 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,380 Number three is the experience. 369 00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:09,240 You know what, the more you write and submit, the better you get at writing and submitting. 370 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,720 And so actually allowing yourself to get to the finish line is so important. 371 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,720 You want the experience. 372 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,680 Number four is networking. 373 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,080 Your grant is kind of speaking on your behalf. 374 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:24,240 Hopefully it's good so that it's not judged, it's not being held against you, but your 375 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,680 work is good, your science is good. 376 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,480 And so allow your grant to go out into the world and speak to people that you don't even 377 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,480 know. 378 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:32,480 It's so awesome. 379 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,680 Number five is the visibility. 380 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:40,080 Because you are continuing to pull these ideas out of yourself and out of your networks to 381 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:44,480 create compelling grant proposals, you're able to parlay them into more. 382 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,840 And so the visibility is good for you, it's good for your science, it's good for your 383 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:48,840 research program. 384 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,160 Number six is pilot data. 385 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,240 You are able to pull together the preliminary data, which does double duty on the next grant 386 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,720 submission or even it allows you to pull it together quickly enough to actually get papers 387 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,200 moving forward. 388 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,240 And finally, it's time efficiency. 389 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,120 Instead of spending six to seven or eight months trying to perfect a grant, you spend 390 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,840 three months, you send it out, you get the feedback, and then it takes less time to pull 391 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,280 it together for the resubmission. 392 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:20,040 Okay, so those are seven reasons you should think about as to why you should submit the 393 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:25,440 grant and not defer, not wait for a perfect time because there's no perfect time. 394 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,480 Submitting a grant proposal is kind of like having a baby. 395 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,960 It's like, oh, there's no perfect time, just do it anyway. 396 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,000 Okay, I know I lost most of you there. 397 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600 But please submit the grant, don't defer. 398 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,880 All right, that's the end of today's episode. 399 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:44,400 If you are looking to help out a fellow clinician scientist who might have a similar concern, 400 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,240 should I submit, should I not submit, please forward them this episode because it's really 401 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,600 going to be helpful to them as I believe and I hope it's been helpful to you. 402 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,720 It's been a pleasure talking with you today. 403 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:05,920 I look forward to talking with you again the next time. 404 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,280 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 405 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,480 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 406 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,080 have a mentor. 407 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:24,040 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 408 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,920 Someone else needs to hear it. 409 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,960 So take a minute right now and share it. 410 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:35,440 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 411 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:55,640 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.