How to create structure to succeed in your academic goals

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,160Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,800Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.1300:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,860I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be speaking with you today.1400:01:08,860 --> 00:01:12,560Today I'm going to be talking about how to create structure to help you succeed in any1500:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,920academic goal that you set for yourself.1600:01:15,920 --> 00:01:21,200And I will tell you that one thing I had throughout my training, and I'm going to bet you had1700:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,240to, is structure.1800:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,920And structure in medical school, I knew exactly which electors were being held when, where1900:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,400I had to be at any given time was very clearly laid out.2000:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,040It was helpful to have that structure.2100:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,280A lot of the things I accomplished in medical school, I accomplished because there was structure2200:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,680that supported my doing that.2300:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,760And similarly, when I went to residency, oh, there was a structure.2400:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,860Every month there's a new rotation.2500:01:45,860 --> 00:01:47,520I know exactly what the rotation is.2600:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,720I know who my attendings are.2700:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,760I know who the residents I'm working with are.2800:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,680I knew everything I needed to know because there was structure.2900:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,520And then in fellowship, there was clearly structure.3000:01:57,520 --> 00:02:02,400There was a 12-month rotation for my rotation schedule for my first year.3100:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,400And then in my second year, I knew exactly what clinics I was going to be in, and I knew3200:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,440what research I was going to do.3300:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,200And then I became a faculty member.3400:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,140Ooh, and all that structure goes away.3500:02:15,140 --> 00:02:19,600The structure around your clinic doesn't go away because, wow, there it is.3600:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,840Every Tuesday and Thursday, I'm in the clinic, and these are the patients who are coming.3700:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,120So it's really nice.3800:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,960You have structure in the clinic.3900:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,280You have structure around consults, too.4000:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,760It's like, this is the number of patients you've been called about.4100:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,340These are the ones you need to see before the day is over.4200:02:36,340 --> 00:02:41,120So in everything we've done in our clinical training, we've always had structure.4300:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,480And then all of a sudden, we come to faculty careers, and we're supposed to accomplish4400:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,920academic things, but then we find that there's no structure.4500:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,480If you're lucky, you have a mentor who meets with you every week to help you create the4600:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,580structure that you need.4700:02:55,580 --> 00:03:00,720If you are like most people, you don't have a mentor who can give you that structure.4800:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,720Many of your mentors are hoping that you can figure it out because they are really busy4900:03:04,720 --> 00:03:10,200and they don't necessarily have the bandwidth to help give you the structure that you need.5000:03:10,200 --> 00:03:14,740They can give you targeted feedback about specific things, but they may not be able5100:03:14,740 --> 00:03:17,000to help provide the structure.5200:03:17,000 --> 00:03:25,360And maybe for some that do, sometimes trying to give you the structure means maybe badgering5300:03:25,360 --> 00:03:31,080you or nagging you so that you can do the thing and move your goal forward.5400:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,080So today, I want to talk to you about creating the structure for yourself.5500:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,840And I want to invite you to think about structure as your friend.5600:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,920Think about the success you've had because of structure that you've had.5700:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,340So think about the structure you had in medical school, how it helped you win.5800:03:47,340 --> 00:03:51,560Think about the structure you had through residency and if you did fellowship, fellowship.5900:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,600Think about how that structure was helpful to you.6000:03:54,600 --> 00:04:01,680And recognize that even when we hate structure, even when we love to be free and spontaneous,6100:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,520there is value in structure.6200:04:03,520 --> 00:04:09,960And if you're going to accomplish academic things within the academy that for you as6300:04:09,960 --> 00:04:16,800a clinician is mostly focused on helping you do well as a clinician for the most part,6400:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,920if you're going to be successful doing the academic things that lack structure, you're6500:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,440going to have to create the structure for yourself.6600:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,880And if you don't create it for yourself, you're going to go find the structure and be a part6700:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,880of it.6800:04:29,880 --> 00:04:35,480And so in this episode, I'm talking to you about how you create your own structure, how6900:04:35,480 --> 00:04:42,400you stop waiting for somebody else to tell you what to do or tell you where the structures7000:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,680are and to create it for yourself.7100:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,120Because here's the thing, in academic medical centers, there's so much of the priority around7200:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,960patient care and so much accountability around patient care.7300:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,500That's the easiest thing for people to give you feedback about.7400:04:58,500 --> 00:05:04,000It's the easiest thing for people to create accountability and structure about for you.7500:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,680But you don't need any more structure in clinical care.7600:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,400You're pretty good around that structure.7700:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,000And to be honest, the structure will always be there.7800:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,560The clinic schedules will always be the clinic schedules.7900:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,120The consult schedules will be the consult schedules.8000:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,520But what you really need help with and what most people don't have help with is a structure8100:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,720for their research and writing accountability.8200:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,680Okay, so that's what we're going to talk about.8300:05:26,680 --> 00:05:31,560We're going to talk about seven ways to create structure to help you succeed in any goal.8400:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,120So yes, my focus is on your research and your writing goals.8500:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,640But I'm going to tell you that this is really around any goal that doesn't have its own8600:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,360inbuilt structure.8700:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,240So the very first thing you want to do is to clarify what direction you're going in.8800:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,000Now what I didn't say was to clarify your destination.8900:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,920Because for many of us, we don't know the destination.9000:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,120We have a general sense of where we're going.9100:05:57,120 --> 00:06:00,120But we don't know exactly where we're going to end up.9200:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,240We look around us and we look at those who've gone before us and we're like, I really love9300:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,520that this person is successful in this way.9400:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,560But I hate the life that they live.9500:06:08,560 --> 00:06:09,760I don't want that life.9600:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,440But we look at this other person and we say, wow, I love that this person is a Nobel laureate.9700:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,920And I hate that they've maybe suffered a lot of financial challenges along the way.9800:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,940Or maybe they've lost some of their important relationships along the way.9900:06:25,940 --> 00:06:27,560I don't want to do that.10000:06:27,560 --> 00:06:33,000Or like recently someone told me, she said, I looked around at all the women around me10100:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,560and many of them had lost their significant others in one way or the other because they10200:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,120were just so consumed by their work.10300:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,520And so many times, we have a general sense of where we want to go.10400:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,960But when we look around, we're like, I don't want that.10500:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,960And I don't want that.10600:06:47,960 --> 00:06:48,960And I don't want that.10700:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,840And sometimes that might deter you.10800:06:50,840 --> 00:06:56,040You're like, well, if everybody I see is heading in a direction that I feel like I don't want10900:06:56,040 --> 00:07:01,240a destination, like if everyone I see is heading to a destination I feel like I don't want11000:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,800to go in, then maybe that's not the destination for me.11100:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,120So many times, we're not sure what the destination is.11200:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,580But we have a sense of the direction.11300:07:10,580 --> 00:07:12,880And that's the most important thing.11400:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,900And the reason it's important that you have a sense of the direction rather than the destination11500:07:17,900 --> 00:07:21,580is that who you're going to become has not yet been defined.11600:07:21,580 --> 00:07:25,160You are creating it in the process of your career.11700:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,040You are literally every day adding one building block to the next building block to the next11800:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,760building block to create who you're going to be.11900:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,360The challenge for you is you look ahead to people who've gone on before you, and you're12000:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,360like, oh my gosh, they're so successful.12100:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,120When you ask them, they tell you the story as if they planned every step of the way.12200:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,280But if they're going to be honest with you, they will tell you that they took opportunities12300:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,160as opportunities came to them.12400:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,720And some opportunities they never imagined until the opportunity was literally staring12500:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,080them in the face.12600:07:56,080 --> 00:08:01,160And so now they can look back on a 30, 40 year career and say, oh yes, and I did this12700:08:01,160 --> 00:08:02,160and I did that.12800:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,600And this is what you should do too.12900:08:03,600 --> 00:08:08,280And in reality, everyone's creating in motion.13000:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,240And if they're creating in motion, you're creating in motion too.13100:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,320What you're going to become has not yet been defined because you're creating it right now.13200:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,680You are literally defining it on the go.13300:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,720And so getting a sense of the direction you're going in is important because then you just13400:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,680start to head in that direction.13500:08:25,680 --> 00:08:30,120You start to ask people, you're like, hey, I am going this way.13600:08:30,120 --> 00:08:31,120How do I get there?13700:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,400And yeah, there are people who look at you and say, you mean you don't have a final destination?13800:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,200Like I don't have anything to do with you.13900:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,200You're confused.14000:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,640And it's okay.14100:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,680You move away from those people and you find the people who are excited for the adventure14200:08:43,680 --> 00:08:47,080that you're on because you are on an adventure.14300:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,520Your academic career is an adventure.14400:08:49,520 --> 00:08:50,760You don't know where you're going to end up.14500:08:50,760 --> 00:08:52,880You have a general sense of it.14600:08:52,880 --> 00:08:53,880It's an adventure.14700:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,200And so you find people and you say, hey, this is a general sense of direction that I'm going14800:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,200in.14900:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,960Can you tell me how to get there?15000:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,920And people who are going to support you on the journey will be excited for this adventure15100:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,400that you're on and they will support you.15200:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,840And people who are not going to support you, you're going to leave them behind no matter15300:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,920how accomplished they are because they're just not the supporters for you.15400:09:15,920 --> 00:09:16,920It's very simple.15500:09:16,920 --> 00:09:17,920It's not personal.15600:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,200It's just, oh, okay, you're not one of my supporters.15700:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,200Got it.15800:09:21,200 --> 00:09:29,600So, yeah, you want to make sure that you clarify the direction you're going in because then15900:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,520that allows you to ask for directions.16000:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,800But it also gives you a little bit of freedom because you don't have to finalize the destination16100:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,280and you don't have to feel like you know exactly where you're going to end up.16200:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,800You know that this is an adventure and you just go with it.16300:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,800You enjoy it.16400:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,320So clarify the direction that you're going in.16500:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,320Okay.16600:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,800Number two is ask, how will I feel when I get there?16700:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,000Like how will I know?16800:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,400How will I know I'm there when I get there?16900:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,120And it's a beautiful thing.17000:10:02,120 --> 00:10:08,040It's like what feeling will you have that helps you recognize that you're where you17100:10:08,040 --> 00:10:09,040want to be?17200:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,240Now, remember, you haven't clarified your destination.17300:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,320So you're really, it's like what's the feeling that tells me I'm heading in the right direction?17400:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,600And this is important.17500:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,360How do I want to feel?17600:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,160Because for many of us, when we look around, are people who've gone ahead of us and we're17700:10:23,160 --> 00:10:24,520like, wow, they're so successful.17800:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,520Oh, but their life sucks.17900:10:26,520 --> 00:10:27,520They're so successful.18000:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,200Oh, but they're so sick.18100:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,200They're so successful.18200:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,760Oh, but they don't talk to the adult children.18300:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,000You know, there are a lot of things that you see and you're like, I love this, but I don't18400:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000love that.18500:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,320And so you are clarifying for yourself what's important to you, how you want to feel when18600:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,560you get there.18700:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,600So perhaps what you're saying is I want to have this successful career.18800:10:49,600 --> 00:10:54,800And at the end of it, I still want to be married and talk to my children.18900:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,080Or you say, I want the successful career.19000:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,080And at the end, I still want to know my mother.19100:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,620I still want to have conversations with her regularly.19200:11:04,620 --> 00:11:09,680Or you say, I want to have the successful career and I want to have time for my hobby19300:11:09,680 --> 00:11:12,440of spelunking on weekends.19400:11:12,440 --> 00:11:17,560Whatever it is for you, how do I want to feel when I get there is important.19500:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,680The reason you want to focus on that and the reason you want to make sure you clarify for19600:11:21,680 --> 00:11:28,180yourself what that feeling is, is because you can easily lose sight of what you want19700:11:28,180 --> 00:11:31,000going after all the things that you're supposed to have.19800:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,840For example, there's a list, there's a number of manuscripts you're supposed to have at19900:11:36,840 --> 00:11:43,920the end of your six to 10 years of assistant professorship and you go after it and you20000:11:43,920 --> 00:11:44,920make it.20100:11:44,920 --> 00:11:51,200And at the end of it, it's like, oh, congratulations, you made it, but you feel so empty.20200:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,560You're like, I don't know, I made it.20300:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,280Why do I feel so empty?20400:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,080And that's exactly it.20500:11:57,080 --> 00:12:03,840The challenge is that in academia, the receipts, the things we're supposed to have at the20600:12:03,840 --> 00:12:11,560end are so clear and sometimes people tell you to go out of your way to make it no matter20700:12:11,560 --> 00:12:16,640what, no matter who you push out of the way, no matter what you do, go for it.20800:12:16,640 --> 00:12:23,520And if you take this advice, you end up at the end of a very successful run and you feel20900:12:23,520 --> 00:12:29,080empty because while it looks successful to other people, it does not feel successful21000:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,080to you.21100:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,640And that is why you do not ask other people, how should I feel when I get there, you decide21200:12:35,640 --> 00:12:42,920for yourself so that as you're going on the journey, you get to say, I don't like the21300:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,320way this is feeling.21400:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,080I see that I'm succeeding, but I don't like the way this is feeling.21500:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,240I don't like the way I feel icky inside.21600:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,240And it allows you to pause and remember that you want to get to the space of success without21700:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,800feeling like you've lost your values, without feeling like you've transgressed your moral21800:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,840values.21900:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,000You want to feel a certain way.22000:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,620And so you want to clarify for yourself what that feeling is so that every time you start22100:13:09,620 --> 00:13:15,200moving in a direction that transgresses your feelings, that makes you feel like not aligned22200:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,960with the way you want to show up in this space, it becomes very clear to you.22300:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,480You can take a step back and say, okay, how can I do things differently?22400:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,680So ask yourself, how will I feel when I get there?22500:13:29,680 --> 00:13:35,720You want to know in advance, you want to prepare in advance so that you are not taken by surprise.22600:13:35,720 --> 00:13:36,720Okay.22700:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,200Number three, who do I know who's already there?22800:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,540And this is a really important question.22900:13:43,540 --> 00:13:48,900It's kind of a trick question because sometimes what we do is we look ahead and we look to23000:13:48,900 --> 00:13:55,000our chairs, we look to the deans, we look to the presidents of the organization or the23100:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,840CEO of the hospital and we're like, yes, I want to be right there.23200:14:00,840 --> 00:14:06,800But what you're saying is that I want the success they have, but I don't like the things23300:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,300about their life that's not working exactly.23400:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,520And so those are not the people you're looking for.23500:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,200The person who's already there, the person who's already CEO, if they don't have a full23600:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,480life that represents the kind of life that you want, then that's not who you want to23700:14:21,480 --> 00:14:22,680be.23800:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,720Who you want to be is a person who has a success in the health at the same time, the one who23900:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,480has a success and relationships at the same time.24000:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,800Because you may be looking at them and saying, I don't want that.24100:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,320And they're like, I'm having a blast.24200:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,080This is exactly the life I want.24300:14:39,080 --> 00:14:40,680You know, that's them, right?24400:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,160They've made decisions for themselves.24500:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,880But you want a certain outcome that helps you know you're successful and it's a holistic24600:14:48,880 --> 00:14:49,880success.24700:14:49,880 --> 00:14:56,080It's not just I have the requisite number of grants or the requisite number of publications24800:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,240or the requisite number of invited talks and therefore I am now chair of this department.24900:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,040Good for me.25000:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,280You want that and more.25100:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,060You want that in a full life.25200:15:08,060 --> 00:15:09,720You want that in friends.25300:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,920You want that in your family intact.25400:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,980You want that in a rich full life outside of the academy.25500:15:16,980 --> 00:15:20,160And so ask yourself, who do I know who's already there?25600:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,000Who's there not just in terms of the success on paper, but is there in terms of the success25700:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000in life?25800:15:27,000 --> 00:15:33,720It is not worth any journey to get to the end of it and to find that you accomplished25900:15:33,720 --> 00:15:39,040all these things, but you don't even feel successful.26000:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,660And so you want to know exactly what success means to you.26100:15:42,660 --> 00:15:45,200And then look around and say, who is there?26200:15:45,200 --> 00:15:55,120Who is in that place right now where they have the thing that I want and then some.26300:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,080They have the papers and then some.26400:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,720They have the invited talks and then some.26500:16:01,720 --> 00:16:07,640You want people who have wholeness and you want people who have peace in their lives.26600:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,240There is a thing that's attractive to you.26700:16:09,240 --> 00:16:14,780I don't know what that is, but you want to identify who do I know who's already there?26800:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,700Who did it in a healthy way?26900:16:16,700 --> 00:16:19,640Who did it where they're still enjoying their lives?27000:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,480Who did it and they're not miserable?27100:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,480Who did it and they're not crying at night?27200:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,400Who did it and they're not eating themselves for having embarked on a journey where there27300:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,760is no end?27400:16:31,760 --> 00:16:38,840Because whenever you make it about the stuff, there will be no end to chasing stuff.27500:16:38,840 --> 00:16:43,880And that's why you want to ask, who is it who's already there in the place of holistic27600:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,840experience of their career in the way that you want to get there?27700:16:49,840 --> 00:16:54,760The number four is to ask, what did they do to get there?27800:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,520Now this is another trick question because you know there's the what did they do to get27900:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,520there?28000:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,280Okay, they submitted five grants a year and therefore they were able to get one big grant28100:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,760every year or they submitted manuscript after manuscript to journal after journal and therefore28200:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,440they were able to publish six manuscripts a year.28300:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,160It's not that.28400:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,960In reality, that's the easy stuff, right?28500:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,120That's the stuff that you can probably read in a handbook.28600:17:24,120 --> 00:17:27,560You need X number of manuscripts to be associate professor.28700:17:27,560 --> 00:17:30,840You need X number of grants to be able to be promoted with tenure.28800:17:30,840 --> 00:17:32,720You can read that in the paper.28900:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,120And then you can read that where people tell you exactly how you go about trying to do29000:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,120that.29100:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,000And that's great.29200:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,360But the people you found that are whole, the people who you found who have both the career29300:17:44,360 --> 00:17:49,400success and the life success, you want to ask how did they do that?29400:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,640How did they accomplish all the stuff?29500:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,760How did they check all the boxes and still have their joy?29600:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,440How did they check all the boxes and they're still going to activities with their kids?29700:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,320How did they check all the boxes and their siblings still talk to them?29800:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,800Those are the people you want to ask.29900:18:09,800 --> 00:18:10,800What did you do to get there?30000:18:10,800 --> 00:18:11,800How?30100:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,160How did you get there?30200:18:15,160 --> 00:18:19,240And again, we're talking about succeeding in any goal, but I'm also talking about succeeding30300:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,240holistically.30400:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,440You can succeed in any goal, not holistically, but I hope that's not the journey that you're30500:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,440on.30600:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,480It's certainly not the journey I'm on.30700:18:28,480 --> 00:18:34,120And so ask what have they done to get here where they're still sane and they still love30800:18:34,120 --> 00:18:39,080life and they're still full of joy because that's where you want to be.30900:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,880Okay, so the moment you've asked what did they do to get there, then you're going to31000:18:42,880 --> 00:18:43,880define your steps.31100:18:43,880 --> 00:18:45,920You're going to define your steps.31200:18:45,920 --> 00:18:50,920Now along the way, you're going to find people that you thought were so full of joy and zest31300:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,320for life and then you go talking to them and you're like, wow, this person is really crabby.31400:18:55,320 --> 00:18:59,800Oh, they seem miserable and oh, I didn't know that that had happened to them.31500:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,000And you're going to say, maybe I crossed this one off.31600:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,680I mean, in terms of the directions that they're giving you, but you don't have to do that.31700:19:07,680 --> 00:19:12,000What you can do is recognize that, okay, these are the steps they took to get there, but31800:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,200these are some of the pitfalls that I see that they made.31900:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,320And so you want to make sure you're not going to end up there.32000:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,520And so you're going to take the directions they give you and modify them for yourself.32100:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,600What are the steps you need to get to your goal?32200:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,920Because again, you've clarified the direction you're going in.32300:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,280You've asked how will I feel when I get there because you don't just want to get there and32400:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,280feel empty.32500:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,600You want to be sure that you're full.32600:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,400You want to ask, who do I know who's already there in the way I want to be there?32700:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,360You asked them, what have you done to get there?32800:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,320You've discovered some surprises along the way.32900:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,120Now you're going to sit down and plan your roadmap.33000:19:50,120 --> 00:19:56,480You're going to say, this person did X, Y, Z. Therefore, I'm going to do X, Y, Z, and33100:19:56,480 --> 00:20:04,160I'm going to subtract Z because Z doesn't get me to where I think I want to go because33200:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,280this person was in the office every day and every night and every weekend.33300:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,640And I don't want to do that.33400:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,640Right.33500:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,760So define the steps that you need to take to get there.33600:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,640And the number six, maybe the most important thing you do is to create the accountability33700:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,560that you need.33800:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,440Who's going to ask you when you forget to do the thing?33900:20:25,440 --> 00:20:32,920Who's going to ask you when you have forgotten about the thing completely and you're just34000:20:32,920 --> 00:20:38,400now doing your own thing without moving forward in the plan that you set for yourself?34100:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,760You're not moving forward in the steps you set for yourself.34200:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,640Who's going to have the courage to ask you, hey, what's going on with those goals that34300:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,800you set for yourself?34400:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,480You need accountability.34500:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,640It's interesting that as humans, we need accountability.34600:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,420We need someone to ask us.34700:20:53,420 --> 00:20:54,880We don't need them to yell at us.34800:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,920We don't need them to whack us on the side of the head.34900:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,840We just need them to ask us because what they're going to ask us is they're going to35000:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,800say, you set this goal for yourself.35100:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,400Where are you with this goal?35200:21:09,400 --> 00:21:15,880And then it's going to trigger your feeling of wanting to be the kind of person who says35300:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,000a thing and then does what they said they would do.35400:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,080And because of that, the moment you have someone who just asks you and they don't have to judge35500:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,040you, they don't have to yell at you, they don't have to say, I can't believe you didn't35600:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,040start.35700:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,120All they have to do is ask you and it helps you knowing that they're going to ask you35800:21:34,120 --> 00:21:41,680again next week prepares you so that you take steps to do what you said you would do.35900:21:41,680 --> 00:21:47,320And so just the mere act of creating the accountability, having somebody ask you, did you do what you36000:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,880said you want to do is so transformational.36100:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,400And in whatever goal you set for yourself, it changes your ability to succeed in that36200:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,160goal.36300:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,400Create the accountability that you need.36400:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,880And then number seven is to build the community that supports you.36500:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,000You have to be strategic in building the community.36600:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,480Many of us come into the communities that we're in and we just accept the defaults.36700:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,160And unfortunately, in academia, there's a lot of unhealthy success.36800:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,600There is a ton of unhealthy success.36900:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,800And if you're not careful, if you follow the default strategies, you will be one of those37000:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,480unhealthy successful people or successful people who are unhealthy.37100:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,120And so do not accept the default environments.37200:22:35,120 --> 00:22:40,840Do not accept the default communities, no matter how attractive they may seem.37300:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,180Because if you're going to be realistic, you recognize that not everybody has the health37400:22:46,180 --> 00:22:50,520and the wealth in their lives like you want.37500:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,160So don't accept any community where people are not healthy, because guess what?37600:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,880You're going to become like them.37700:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,680No you're not the one who's going to go in and change their way of thinking.37800:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,760You're going to be the one who's going to go in and become like them.37900:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,760You're going to adjust to their temperature.38000:23:04,760 --> 00:23:06,280You're going to adjust to the climate of the room.38100:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,680And you're going to be miserable, miserably successful like them.38200:23:10,680 --> 00:23:17,040So you want to build a community that supports you in the goals that you set for yourself.38300:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,920You're very clear about how you want to feel when you get where you're going.38400:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,520You want to build a community of like-minded people, because they will support you in the38500:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,800goal that you have chosen for yourself.38600:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,240And so I just encourage you, if you do not already have that community, I'm inviting38700:23:34,240 --> 00:23:40,880you this week to think about who is in that, who is one person, one person who is like-minded38800:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,400like you are, who says, I want the manuscripts, I want the grants, but I don't want to be38900:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,400miserable.39000:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,480Who is that person?39100:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,960And connect with them and see if you can start building a community.39200:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,080It only takes two to start a community.39300:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,080It takes two.39400:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,000And the moment you find two like-minded individuals, guess what?39500:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,560You're going to find two more, because each of you finds one and then you become four39600:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,000and it begins to grow exponentially.39700:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,720Find a community that supports you so that you can create the structure to help you succeed39800:24:10,720 --> 00:24:11,720in any goal.39900:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,680Okay, so I'm going to just recap, clarify the direction you're going in, ask how will40000:24:16,680 --> 00:24:22,680I feel when I get there, ask who do I know who's already there, both in the numbers of40100:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,120things that they've done, but also in their life success.40200:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,280Number four, ask what they've done to get there.40300:24:28,280 --> 00:24:32,240Number five, define your own steps to get there, one that's specially crafted and tailored40400:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240for you.40500:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,840Number six, create the accountability you need.40600:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,040And number seven, build a community that supports you.40700:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,120Okay, so these are some of the things I'll be talking about in a webinar that I'm hosting40800:24:43,120 --> 00:24:47,800on Monday, November 20th at 6 p.m., talking about five critical steps you've got to take40900:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,880if you're going to make the transition from clinician to research scientist.41000:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,160And actually, I said research leader.41100:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,560So if you're interested, please join us.41200:24:56,560 --> 00:25:03,240Go to our website, goitecoach.com and go to events and you'll find a way to sign up or41300:25:03,240 --> 00:25:10,520you can just go to the podcast website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com and that will have information about our next webinar,41400:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,240if for whatever reason you've missed it.41500:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,600All right, it's been a pleasure to talk with you today.41600:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,120Thank you so much for being part of the show.41700:25:17,120 --> 00:25:22,520Please share this with someone if you have not already subscribed or leave us a five-star41800:25:22,520 --> 00:25:23,520review.41900:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,520We would appreciate it so that other people can find us and continue to advance in their42000:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,520careers even as you are doing as well.42100:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,200All right, it's been a pleasure to talk with you today.42200:25:32,200 --> 00:25:42,160I look forward to talking with you again the next time.42300:25:42,160 --> 00:25:47,480Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic42400:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,960clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they42500:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,280have a mentor.42600:25:54,280 --> 00:26:00,400If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.42700:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,120Someone else needs to hear it.42800:26:02,120 --> 00:26:06,200So take a minute right now and share it.42900:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,640As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation43000:26:11,640 --> 00:26:17,600of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.