How to safeguard your time for scholarship

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,100Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,260Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.1300:01:03,260 --> 00:01:07,840I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.1400:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,680Thank you for tuning in, for taking the time to be here today, because if you were not1500:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,100here, I would not be here talking.1600:01:14,100 --> 00:01:16,400So, yes, thank you for tuning in.1700:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,880Today I am talking about how to safeguard time for scholarship, how to safeguard your1800:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,360time for scholarship.1900:01:24,360 --> 00:01:31,680And the reason behind this podcast is a recent conversation I had with a group of peers,2000:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,200and we were talking about challenges that we're experiencing and moving our research2100:01:35,200 --> 00:01:36,620forward.2200:01:36,620 --> 00:01:42,720And somebody said, yeah, you know, the requirement at our hospital is that everybody has to be2300:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,200in their inbox and respond to any MyChart message within, I forget, whether it was 202400:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,200minutes or something of it being sent.2500:01:51,200 --> 00:01:56,280And I had to start laughing when I heard that because it reminded me of a situation when2600:01:56,280 --> 00:02:04,840I first started my faculty career where I really believed every rule was law.2700:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,960Everything they said I had to do, I would do.2800:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,160Only physicians can call prior authorizations.2900:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,360Well, okay, only physicians can write orders for calcium.3000:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,200Okay, I believed everything I was told.3100:02:18,200 --> 00:02:24,560And I recognize now in retrospect that believing everything you're told doesn't work for children,3200:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,000and it certainly doesn't work for adults, right?3300:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,400Eventually you have to wake up and start to recognize that not everything you're told3400:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,400should be believed.3500:02:33,400 --> 00:02:39,140And, you know, going back to the initial conversation we were having, it's like, well, if you3600:02:39,140 --> 00:02:43,800have to respond to any message within 20 minutes of it being sent, that means you're literally3700:02:43,800 --> 00:02:50,400going to be in MyChart checking messages all the time, and that doesn't foster good patient3800:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,600care because clearly you have more to do beyond just checking MyChart messages when it comes3900:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,760to taking care of patients and certainly when it comes to taking care of leading a research4000:02:58,760 --> 00:02:59,920program.4100:02:59,920 --> 00:03:05,200And so I just want to pause and talk about how to safeguard your time for scholarship.4200:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,640I'm going to just talk about seven things that you need to think about as you are moving4300:03:10,640 --> 00:03:12,600forward to do scholarship.4400:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,480Now the first thing I do want to share is that if you are at an academic medical center,4500:03:16,480 --> 00:03:22,400no matter your title, so maybe you're a clinician or you're a clinician educator or you're a4600:03:22,400 --> 00:03:27,940clinician scientist or a research scientist, no matter your title, if you are part of an4700:03:27,940 --> 00:03:34,280academic medical center, there is a baseline expectation that you're contributing to scholarship.4800:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,920And now the requirements for scholarship depend on what you've agreed to in taking on your4900:03:38,920 --> 00:03:39,920job.5000:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,320Now for many of you in my community, you are clinicians who are trying to make that transition5100:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,680from clinician to clinician scientist or clinician researcher.5200:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,440Some of you have already made that transition where you're primarily a clinician scientist5300:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,600and some of you are probably just already like fully research scientists.5400:03:57,600 --> 00:04:03,240But no matter what, scholarship is part of your portfolio as part of an academic medical5500:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,240center.5600:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,680So even if you are fully clinical, there's an expectation that you contribute to scholarship5700:04:08,680 --> 00:04:14,080either in taking on trainees within your program, teaching a few lectures.5800:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,680There's an expectation that there'll be some publications, even if it's not kind of like5900:04:18,680 --> 00:04:25,800the highest expectation as would maybe be required of someone who's a clinician, who6000:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,880is a scientist only or a clinician scientist who has got most of their time protected for6100:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,880research.6200:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,080So scholarship is an inherent piece of being at an academic medical center.6300:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,520And so there's always got to be time for scholarship.6400:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,120Sometimes I'll hear people say, well, you have 20% protective time for scholarship.6500:04:46,120 --> 00:04:51,280And to be honest, that's not really real because if you are in clinic four days a week, 20%6600:04:51,280 --> 00:04:55,100of that time is time to finish your administrative tasks.6700:04:55,100 --> 00:04:57,600That's not protected time for research.6800:04:57,600 --> 00:05:03,040And to be honest, anybody who says that is protected time is not being sincere.6900:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,440But that's not where we're going today.7000:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,720Today we're talking about, well, how do you safeguard your time for scholarship no matter7100:05:08,720 --> 00:05:09,720what?7200:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,000Because even if you are, as long as you have any clinical experience, as long as you have7300:05:14,000 --> 00:05:20,400any clinical training, there's always an expectation that you're going to be able to manage and7400:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,400take care of patients.7500:05:21,400 --> 00:05:27,240As long as you have any clinical responsibility, you want to protect the time that you don't7600:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,000have clinical responsibility to move forward in scholarship.7700:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,800And why do you need to do this?7800:05:32,800 --> 00:05:38,560You need to do it because otherwise you're going to spend your whole time doing things7900:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,160that are surrounding patient care, not necessarily directly related to patient care, but you're8000:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,680not going to be able to move other things forward.8100:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,800And then when it comes to time to doing your scholarship, then you're kind of biting into8200:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,420your nights and weekends to try to get that done.8300:05:52,420 --> 00:05:54,440And that doesn't make for healthy living.8400:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,400And so that's not what I'm primarily recommending.8500:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,640So how do you do that where your scholarship is part of your daytime activities?8600:06:01,640 --> 00:06:02,640Okay.8700:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,640So the first thing I want to share is that you have to recognize that the rules of any8800:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,560system are agnostic to your needs, right?8900:06:09,560 --> 00:06:15,040The system is not thinking, oh, what does this person need to best succeed?9000:06:15,040 --> 00:06:21,180Ideally, right, systems are built to think about those who work within them and make9100:06:21,180 --> 00:06:24,440sure that they are healthy and they're well cared for.9200:06:24,440 --> 00:06:31,200But in reality, academic medical centers are really places of extreme contradiction, right?9300:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,680Academics is important, scholarship matters, but also 100% attention to patient care, but9400:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,320also 100% attention to education.9500:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,880And to be honest, sometimes those things actually are in conflict.9600:06:44,880 --> 00:06:50,720And so if you have a system where all these things are in conflict, then no one in the9700:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,600system is thinking, well, how do I help the clinician who is trying to build a research9800:06:55,600 --> 00:06:56,600program?9900:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,340How do I make sure that they're okay?10000:06:58,340 --> 00:07:02,800If you are in a situation where people are actively in your system thinking about you10100:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,120as they're making up the rules, kudos to you.10200:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,160And congratulations.10300:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,680And please send us a message about where you are because we need to know.10400:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,600It's a unique situation.10500:07:13,600 --> 00:07:18,640What's most realistic, what happens more likely, is that those who are in charge of the clinical10600:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,800things are making the rules for clinical things.10700:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,960And those who are in charge of scholarship are making the rules in terms of what's needed10800:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,500for a scholarship.10900:07:26,500 --> 00:07:30,760Those who are in administration are making the rules that's best for them in administration.11000:07:30,760 --> 00:07:35,000Those who are educating trainees are making rules as far as what's best for the education11100:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,000of trainees.11200:07:36,000 --> 00:07:40,280And they don't all go together to help you move forward.11300:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,840But it's important to recognize that the system is agnostic.11400:07:45,840 --> 00:07:47,480It doesn't know what your needs are.11500:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,520It has no idea what you need.11600:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,600And so that's the first thing just to say, no one's out to get you.11700:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,740No one's out to get you.11800:07:56,740 --> 00:08:01,560It's just the system works to support the system in the silos in which the system exists.11900:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,240So you just have to recognize that if it's not working for you, it's not because anyone's12000:08:06,240 --> 00:08:07,800out to get you.12100:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,880It's just because the system is agnostic.12200:08:09,880 --> 00:08:18,840It has no idea who you are in its systemic and its need to take care of its own issues.12300:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,440The second thing is that the system is not built to care for your needs.12400:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,220This is different from number one.12500:08:25,220 --> 00:08:28,480So number one is that the rules is agnostic.12600:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,300It just doesn't care for you one way or the other.12700:08:31,300 --> 00:08:36,720But number two is very clearly when it comes to your mental health, your emotional health,12800:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,640your well-being, OK, the system is not built to do that for you.12900:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,640It's really great that at many institutions, there's like personal psychological services13000:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,080that are available to you in case you're stressed.13100:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,320That's all well and good.13200:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,800But what I'm talking about is a system that's inherently structured to care personally for13300:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,640the clinician or the clinician scientist or the clinician who's trying to build a research13400:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,480program or a program of scholarship.13500:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,040It is not built to care for your needs.13600:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,600It's not there to say, wow, this attending, this clinician has rounded for the last seven13700:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,600days.13800:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,800Let's build in a day of rest following seven days of rounding.13900:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,040Oh, no, no, no.14000:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,880There's none of that.14100:09:20,880 --> 00:09:21,880No one wants to know.14200:09:21,880 --> 00:09:22,880No one's asking you.14300:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,040No one's saying, oh, yeah, you work seven days.14400:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,960Oh, of course, you should take time off.14500:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,000Barely anybody is doing that.14600:09:29,000 --> 00:09:35,760And that's why number three is that the best person equipped to handle your needs is you.14700:09:35,760 --> 00:09:37,840OK, we've agreed.14800:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,480We've said that the system is not there.14900:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,720It's agnostic to your needs.15000:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,760It's not there to care for you.15100:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,440And so if somebody is going to say, hey, what's going on with Toyosi?15200:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,720What does she need after seven days of rounding nonstop in the hospital?15300:09:53,720 --> 00:10:00,280Well, the chances are high that you're going to need to take the leadership, take the leadership15400:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,080of caring personally for yourself.15500:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,880And so when it comes to your scholarship and safeguarding your scholarship, you're going15600:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,440to need to take the lead because you're the best equipped person to do that.15700:10:12,440 --> 00:10:13,440Right.15800:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,240The system is not built for you.15900:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,000I mean, it's agnostic to your needs.16000:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,160It has no idea what you need, but you have exactly what you need.16100:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,080You know, you know what you need.16200:10:24,080 --> 00:10:29,160And so you could wait and say, well, they'll figure out that I'm tired and then someone's16300:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,840going to give me a day off.16400:10:30,840 --> 00:10:36,580You can wait for that or you can say, hmm, they may or may not figure out that I'm tired.16500:10:36,580 --> 00:10:41,400And so why don't I just take the rest that I need and figure out a way to do that.16600:10:41,400 --> 00:10:42,400Right.16700:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,400And so the person that's best equipped to handle your needs as you will always be you.16800:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,480And I'm glad it's you because fortunately, you know, no one cares about your needs more16900:10:52,480 --> 00:10:53,480than you do.17000:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,120Actually, maybe your mother, if she's still alive, right.17100:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,880Your mother, maybe your dad, a parent.17200:10:59,880 --> 00:11:00,880Right.17300:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,600But other than the parent and especially now that you're in the academic medical center,17400:11:04,600 --> 00:11:05,600it's you.17500:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,200And so and so take ownership, take ownership.17600:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,200OK.17700:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,520Number four is if you can't make headway, reach out to your mentors.17800:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,440This is the benefit of having mentors.17900:11:16,440 --> 00:11:17,440Right.18000:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,320The benefit of having mentors is that sometimes you can't figure things out or sometimes you18100:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,600don't even know who to turn to or sometimes you know who to turn to.18200:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,640And they're just, you know, they're just not really supporting you like they're supposed18300:11:27,640 --> 00:11:28,640to.18400:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,760So the benefit of having people you can reach out to and say, hey, this is not working.18500:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,680Hey, how do I manage this thing where I've been on call for seven days, but there's no18600:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,520time built in my schedule for me to take time off.18700:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,760This is where mentors can support you.18800:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,600It doesn't mean they're going to go to bat for you.18900:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,760Many of them don't necessarily do that, but at least they'll give you advice and say,19000:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,200oh, yeah, of course.19100:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,760After you've been on service for seven days, you can take a day off on your own.19200:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,720And this is who you tell or it doesn't matter who you tell.19300:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,840But you know, they give you ideas for how they manage it.19400:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,640And hopefully they're healthy in the way they live their lives so that they can give you19500:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,080advice that's healthy for you.19600:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,460And but even if they're not, you'll catch a clue based on what they say, how they're19700:12:09,460 --> 00:12:11,160thinking about these things.19800:12:11,160 --> 00:12:12,680But definitely reach out.19900:12:12,680 --> 00:12:17,300Even if it's a mentor who's outside your institution and they don't necessarily have any pull within20000:12:17,300 --> 00:12:21,560your institution, they can still give you advice that's helpful for you, that helps20100:12:21,560 --> 00:12:22,880you move forward.20200:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,400So if you cannot make headway in safeguarding time for your scholarship, this is where you20300:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,160really can make good use of your mentors, both internal mentors and external mentors20400:12:33,160 --> 00:12:34,960as well.20500:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,480OK.20600:12:36,480 --> 00:12:40,240Number five is to carefully craft the career you want.20700:12:40,240 --> 00:12:47,520Now, remember at the story at the beginning, I told you the story of a young person who's20800:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,620part of a peer mentoring group who's like, well, the requirement of the institution is20900:12:51,620 --> 00:12:57,760that within 15 to 20 minutes of any message being sent, it needs to be responded to.21000:12:57,760 --> 00:13:06,760And you know, I imagine that if we actually trace that rule back to the person who reportedly21100:13:06,760 --> 00:13:12,800said it, we will find out that maybe it was contextual or maybe it was a specific situation21200:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,440in which they said that needed to happen.21300:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,680But as with all urban legends, you know, it starts with a little kernel of truth and then21400:13:20,680 --> 00:13:26,720it's exaggerated and then it's distorted and then it becomes this amazing story that's21500:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,160really hard to believe, especially when you know the system well.21600:13:31,160 --> 00:13:37,000And so you don't want to take everything at face value and say, well, this is the requirement.21700:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,400You want to ask, is it really the requirement?21800:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,400Is it really?21900:13:40,400 --> 00:13:46,240Because if it is the requirement for me to be in the epic messaging all day and well,22000:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,320I guess until, you know, maybe in this case, it was an infusion center.22100:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,320Okay, maybe until the infusion center closes, then I have to ask, so when am I doing my22200:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,040charting?22300:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,480When am I doing my scholarship?22400:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,840When am I doing my resident education?22500:14:00,840 --> 00:14:01,840Right.22600:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,400These are the questions you ask.22700:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,840And instead of like internalizing it all and saying, okay, I'll just move it to the night.22800:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,560I'll just push sleep out of the way.22900:14:09,560 --> 00:14:16,000Instead of doing that, you ask, hmm, what do I want for my experience so that I can23000:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,000show up well in the other things for which I'm called to do.23100:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000Right.23200:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,600I mean, you're called to the institution to see patients, to, you know, take care of patients,23300:14:26,600 --> 00:14:33,560close charts, to lead an academic experience, to take care of the trainees who are coming23400:14:33,560 --> 00:14:34,960through your program to teach.23500:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,840Like, you have a job description.23600:14:37,840 --> 00:14:38,840It's very clear.23700:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,800I mean, you may not be clear about what your job description is, but the requirements are23800:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,300usually set forth in the AP&T handbook.23900:14:45,300 --> 00:14:49,760So that's the, you know, promotions and tenure handbook.24000:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,840Usually it's like these are the requirements to be promoted.24100:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,240And that usually tells you about what's valued at your institution, what you're supposed24200:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,240to be doing.24300:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,800And so if you look at all these rules and they're not supporting you in the way that24400:15:00,800 --> 00:15:07,720the institution says you should be moving forward, then you decide how to best help24500:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,600your institution get what they want out of you.24600:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,000Because if at the end of three years of being at your institution, you're like, well, I24700:15:14,000 --> 00:15:19,840was so busy in my chart, I didn't really have a chance to close all my patient charts, or24800:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,960I didn't really have a chance to do any scholarship.24900:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,520It's like you actually have not progressed like you're supposed to, and people will let25000:15:27,520 --> 00:15:28,720you know that.25100:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,440And you cannot use the excuse of like, well, if you hadn't made this rule about my chart,25200:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,040I would be better.25300:15:34,040 --> 00:15:40,940It's not, don't wait three years to try to ask someone, you know, how to move forward25400:15:40,940 --> 00:15:42,880in a rule that doesn't help you.25500:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,080You decide, you decide, you've got to decide.25600:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,960Like this is the career I want.25700:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,800This is how I want to move forward.25800:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,120Therefore this rule that keeps me in my chart day and night, let's figure out a way to fix25900:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,120it.26000:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,120Right?26100:15:57,120 --> 00:15:58,120So this is important for you to think about.26200:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,120Okay.26300:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,040The next thing to do is to help your senior leaders understand why it's best to support26400:16:03,040 --> 00:16:04,040you.26500:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,640Again, going back to I don't know what the origin of this story is, people will say,26600:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,320oh, the senior leadership wants this.26700:16:09,320 --> 00:16:15,360And you know, many times senior leadership, they say things and the things they say are26800:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,200carried out of proportion.26900:16:17,200 --> 00:16:23,460And all of a sudden people are saying, people are making changes to their academic experience27000:16:23,460 --> 00:16:28,720or to their patient care based on what somebody may have said in an off comment or off the27100:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,640record in passing.27200:16:30,640 --> 00:16:31,640Right?27300:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,320And this is the challenge of leadership.27400:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,320You do not recognize how much influence your word carries.27500:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,400The moment you say something, even if you were just joking, even if you were just thinking27600:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,160it through, people are apt to respond to it and then to tell other people that, oh, this27700:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,760is what the boss wants.27800:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,840This is what the leadership wants.27900:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,280And it may not even be what the leadership wants.28000:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,920And so it's an opportunity to go before your leadership, whether that's your division chief28100:16:57,920 --> 00:17:03,200or your department chair and say, hey, I heard that there's this new rule that keeps us in28200:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,040my chart all the time.28300:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,040Hmm.28400:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,880What were you thinking when you made this rule?28500:17:07,880 --> 00:17:08,880Right?28600:17:08,880 --> 00:17:14,920And then you really get to understand what was the intent behind the communication, what28700:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,280is realistic, what is expected.28800:17:17,280 --> 00:17:22,620And if they're completely oblivious, right, because many leaders in physician organizations28900:17:22,620 --> 00:17:26,640now are not necessarily physicians and they don't understand the impact of some of the29000:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,880requirements that they're bringing forth, you help them understand to say, well, if29100:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,920you are optimizing for me being in my chart, here are all the things that you're not optimizing29200:17:36,920 --> 00:17:44,520for and you help people see that whatever regulations or whatever rules are being promulgated29300:17:44,520 --> 00:17:50,300or being made up are not supporting you so that they can decide if they need to reinterpret29400:17:50,300 --> 00:17:54,960the rules, if they need to clarify things for you, if they need to say, hey, we thought29500:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,360it was a great idea, clearly not a great idea.29600:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,120We did not mean to X, Y, Z.29700:18:00,120 --> 00:18:04,680And so you're really helping your senior leaders support you and helping them understand why29800:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,800it's best to support you.29900:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,200It's like, well, this doesn't meet the mission.30000:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,400This doesn't help the bottom line.30100:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,840This is what helps me move forward in a way that supports you and your role as a leader.30200:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,460And so you help your senior leaders understand why it's best to support you rather than just30300:18:20,460 --> 00:18:23,060making rules that actually don't help you move forward.30400:18:23,060 --> 00:18:26,840And what I see a lot of people doing, especially people who are underrepresented in the academy30500:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,560doing is just resisting, right?30600:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,120We're not going to say, we're not going to face it head on.30700:18:32,120 --> 00:18:34,040We're just not going to do this thing.30800:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,720And you got to do what works for you.30900:18:36,720 --> 00:18:43,200But if you can, it's always useful to have these conversations so that the people who31000:18:43,200 --> 00:18:48,500are making these rules are connected to the consequences of the rules that they're making.31100:18:48,500 --> 00:18:53,240So do what's necessary, but you help your senior leaders understand why it is in their31200:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,480best interest to support you.31300:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,540And then the final thing I want to say is that no matter what, you're going to need31400:18:59,540 --> 00:19:01,820thick skin to move through the system.31500:19:01,820 --> 00:19:05,240So you're going to be able, you're going to need to stand up for yourself.31600:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,720You're going to need to recognize that there are always going to be people within the system31700:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,880who don't stand up for themselves, who don't say, no, that rule doesn't make sense for31800:19:14,880 --> 00:19:15,880us.31900:19:15,880 --> 00:19:16,880We're not going to do that.32000:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,040This is how we're going to do it.32100:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,120There'll always be people who are like, no, no, no, no, no, just keep your head down.32200:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,120Just, just do it.32300:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,000No, they say you should be in my chart all day.32400:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,240You better be in my chart all day.32500:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,500And then you just do the work in the middle of the night when nobody else is looking.32600:19:28,500 --> 00:19:30,280And it may be working for them.32700:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,000But if it's not working for you, you don't have to go with that flow, but recognize that32800:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,560the moment you make a different choice, you are not going to be liked by the people who32900:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,260have decided not to make that choice.33000:19:42,260 --> 00:19:44,600And you've got to be okay with that.33100:19:44,600 --> 00:19:50,800So if you're going to make changes that allow you to create space for your scholarship,33200:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,480you're going to need to have thick skin and you're going to need to recognize that you're33300:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,520going to be doing things differently from some people around you.33400:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,520And it's okay.33500:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,920And this is where community comes in, right?33600:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,840People who are doing what you're doing or moving around in the system the same way you're33700:20:05,840 --> 00:20:12,080moving through the system so that you know that even if at your local institution, things,33800:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,920you know, are not necessarily, you're not supported to do that way, to do things that33900:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,160way, then you have a bigger community that supports you to do that.34000:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,160Okay.34100:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,560So the first thing I said is to recognize that the rules are agnostic to your needs.34200:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,920This is summarizing everything.34300:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,920Number two, the system is really not built to care for you.34400:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,880It's not built to really meet your needs.34500:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,920Number three, the person best equipped to handle your needs is you.34600:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,000Number four, if you cannot make headway, it's an opportunity to reach out to your mentors34700:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,400to support you.34800:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,940Number five, carefully craft the career you want so you can decide how you show up in34900:20:46,940 --> 00:20:48,260your career.35000:20:48,260 --> 00:20:52,680Number seven, help your senior leaders understand why it is best to support you.35100:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,680That was number six.35200:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,400And then number seven, you're going to need thick skin to move through the system because35300:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,280no matter what, you're going to be doing things differently from people around you.35400:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,800You're going to want to be feel like you're supported to do that.35500:21:02,800 --> 00:21:03,800Okay.35600:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,120So I want to invite you this week to think about some requirements that you've been invited35700:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,600to take on that don't actually help you.35800:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,360They don't meet your needs personally.35900:21:13,360 --> 00:21:15,520They don't meet your needs emotionally.36000:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,840Maybe you're being asked to lead a meeting that starts at 6 p.m. and daycare closes at36100:21:20,840 --> 00:21:21,8406 p.m.36200:21:21,840 --> 00:21:27,840And you know that you can't afford to not take your kids out of daycare on time.36300:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,560You know, those kinds of things.36400:21:29,560 --> 00:21:36,640What opportunities do you have to change, to actually address those requirements that36500:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,120may not be meeting your needs today?36600:21:40,120 --> 00:21:44,120And so I invite you to just think creatively about how can you do that?36700:21:44,120 --> 00:21:48,320How can you, instead of just saying, okay, I guess I will just pay extra money for an36800:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,440au pair that picks up the kids at 6 p.m., how can you address the requirements so that36900:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,960your institution helps you meet your needs?37000:21:56,960 --> 00:21:57,960Right.37100:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,120I mean, they're not thinking about it, but you are.37200:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,480Anyway, so that's my call to action this week.37300:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,800And I'd love to hear about some strategies that you have put in place to do that.37400:22:06,800 --> 00:22:07,800All right.37500:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,520It's been a pleasure talking with you today.37600:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,560Thank you so much for listening.37700:22:11,560 --> 00:22:23,760And I look forward to talking with you again the next time.37800:22:23,760 --> 00:22:29,080Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic37900:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,280clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they38000:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,920have a mentor.38100:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,280If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.38200:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,760Someone else needs to hear it.38300:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,800So take a minute right now and share it.38400:22:47,800 --> 00:22:53,280As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation38500:22:53,280 --> 00:23:12,080of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.