How to transition from clinician to research leader

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills200:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.300:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.400:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find500:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research600:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200program.700:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.800:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.900:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians1000:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.1100:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.1200:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,320Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast.1300:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,900I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today.1400:01:07,900 --> 00:01:08,900Thank you for tuning in.1500:01:08,900 --> 00:01:13,520Today, I'm going to talk about how clinicians can make the transition from clinician to1600:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,060researcher.1700:01:15,060 --> 00:01:20,440And I want to share it with you because it's a transition that I had to make when I first1800:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,200started in my faculty career.1900:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,840Now, the ideal time to start to make the transition is really in your fellowship, for those of2000:01:26,840 --> 00:01:32,160you who did a postdoctoral fellowship, because it's an opportunity for you to take two years2100:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,980of research, which is usually the case in most of these fellowship programs that have2200:01:36,980 --> 00:01:39,360a research component.2300:01:39,360 --> 00:01:45,300You take the two years to connect with a mentor, work in a mentor's research program, create2400:01:45,300 --> 00:01:51,140opportunities for scholarly productivity, so write papers, publish, and submit grants.2500:01:51,140 --> 00:01:57,100And so ideally, you're done with the fellowship and you have already a couple of manuscripts2600:01:57,100 --> 00:01:58,200in hand.2700:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,600You have an area of expertise that you're building and you might have some grant funding.2800:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,260Okay, that's the ideal.2900:02:06,260 --> 00:02:12,740For someone like me, it didn't quite work out that way.3000:02:12,740 --> 00:02:17,020And it's not that I didn't really work hard to get some research opportunities during3100:02:17,020 --> 00:02:23,280fellowship, it's that for different reasons, I wasn't able to get the mentoring that helps3200:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,120me build the research in the way I wanted to.3300:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,260And so I did apply for grant funding, I did publish a manuscript or two, but it really3400:02:31,260 --> 00:02:36,260wasn't where it needed to be by the time I ended my faculty career.3500:02:36,260 --> 00:02:39,920I mean, by the time I ended my fellowship.3600:02:39,920 --> 00:02:45,540And the challenge is when you now go, or at least when I went to seek a clinical research3700:02:45,540 --> 00:02:52,060job or a job where I could be a clinician scientist, it didn't look as if I was a serious3800:02:52,060 --> 00:02:54,980person from the perspective of the hiring party, right?3900:02:54,980 --> 00:03:00,180So from the academic institution trying to hire me, it was like, well, you don't look4000:03:00,180 --> 00:03:01,660like someone who knows how to do this.4100:03:01,660 --> 00:03:03,940You don't look like someone who can't succeed.4200:03:03,940 --> 00:03:08,620And so it makes it difficult when they go to advocate for this hire, they say, well,4300:03:08,620 --> 00:03:11,420you want to hire this person as a physician scientist.4400:03:11,420 --> 00:03:17,440And then people, the institution asks, where is the evidence that this person is going4500:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,580to be able to do this successfully?4600:03:20,580 --> 00:03:25,580The evidence they have for people like me is that, you know what, we've been doing clinical4700:03:25,580 --> 00:03:28,940training for a long time and we're really good at the clinical things.4800:03:28,940 --> 00:03:34,740But the research getting, the grant getting, the research structure, the creating manuscripts,4900:03:34,740 --> 00:03:37,700there is not that much evidence to support that.5000:03:37,700 --> 00:03:40,980And so I ended up really in a clinical job at the beginning.5100:03:40,980 --> 00:03:43,340And for many clinicians, that's our trajectory.5200:03:43,340 --> 00:03:47,300We start out fully clinical when we start our faculty careers, even though we want to5300:03:47,300 --> 00:03:49,580succeed as researchers.5400:03:49,580 --> 00:03:51,740And that's a group I'm talking to today.5500:03:51,740 --> 00:03:57,020I'm talking to the group of people who didn't do all the things that were supposed to happen5600:03:57,020 --> 00:03:59,700at the time that you completed your fellowship.5700:03:59,700 --> 00:04:03,620And now you're a faculty member trying to build a research program, but you're really5800:04:03,620 --> 00:04:06,940fully clinical or mostly clinical.5900:04:06,940 --> 00:04:10,620Nobody's ever 100% clinical, at least that's what they say on paper.6000:04:10,620 --> 00:04:14,020But I want to talk to you because I do think it's possible.6100:04:14,020 --> 00:04:15,020I know it's possible.6200:04:15,020 --> 00:04:16,100I'm living the life.6300:04:16,100 --> 00:04:18,020So I know it's possible.6400:04:18,020 --> 00:04:20,640I also know that it is challenging.6500:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,580And I know that if you're going to do it, you actually need direction.6600:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,500Like it's not that kind of thing that just happens by accident.6700:04:26,500 --> 00:04:31,880It's the thing that happens because you are intentional about creating opportunities for6800:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,880that to happen.6900:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,300So I want to share some insights about that today.7000:04:36,300 --> 00:04:38,580And I also want to share with you that you can.7100:04:38,580 --> 00:04:41,740You can succeed no matter what anybody says.7200:04:41,740 --> 00:04:42,740You are qualified.7300:04:42,740 --> 00:04:46,900As someone who has come through medical training, you've already done the impossible.7400:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,160You can do it again.7500:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,580And so if anybody ever tells you you can't, you're not qualified, it's really not true.7600:04:52,580 --> 00:04:55,460The question will always be, is this what you want to do?7700:04:55,460 --> 00:04:57,660And are you willing to pay the price to do it?7800:04:57,660 --> 00:04:58,660That's the question.7900:04:58,660 --> 00:05:02,100And if the answer to both is yes, then you absolutely should do it.8000:05:02,100 --> 00:05:06,860And I'm going to talk about seven ways that you can think about doing it.8100:05:06,860 --> 00:05:09,660So number one is you've got to commit.8200:05:09,660 --> 00:05:12,700A research leadership pathway is a commitment.8300:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,180It's not a let's just do it and see how it works out.8400:05:15,180 --> 00:05:18,180It's a commitment you make because it's going to be hard.8500:05:18,180 --> 00:05:19,940You're going to fail.8600:05:19,940 --> 00:05:21,980I like to say fail forward.8700:05:21,980 --> 00:05:23,260There's going to be challenges.8800:05:23,260 --> 00:05:26,420There are times where you're going to be like, is this even worth it?8900:05:26,420 --> 00:05:28,100It really is a commitment.9000:05:28,100 --> 00:05:29,100It's a commitment.9100:05:29,100 --> 00:05:30,100You say, I'm going to do this.9200:05:30,100 --> 00:05:31,900I'm going to make it work.9300:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,380And if you're going to make this kind of commitment, it's like don't commit to someone in marriage9400:05:35,380 --> 00:05:38,020unless you love them, right?9500:05:38,020 --> 00:05:43,760Do not commit to research unless there's something about research that you really love, right?9600:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,260Unless there's a project you want to move forward, unless it's a patient population9700:05:47,260 --> 00:05:50,020that really resonates with you.9800:05:50,020 --> 00:05:53,020Don't commit unless there is love.9900:05:53,020 --> 00:05:54,580I really do mean that.10000:05:54,580 --> 00:05:58,380And I know sometimes people are like, well, you know, everybody says you should do research,10100:05:58,380 --> 00:05:59,980so I just want to do it.10200:05:59,980 --> 00:06:03,500And I have to tell you that that doesn't sustain this long-term relationship.10300:06:03,500 --> 00:06:06,140It is a long-term relationship.10400:06:06,140 --> 00:06:07,720And there are people who quit along the way.10500:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,260And it's not to say that you can't quit.10600:06:09,260 --> 00:06:14,780I'm just saying that I'm not talking to people who are not committed.10700:06:14,780 --> 00:06:19,820Because there's a different way you move forward when you are kind of like non-committal.10800:06:19,820 --> 00:06:22,820You can like try it and see if it works out.10900:06:22,820 --> 00:06:29,260But you know, if you are trying it and you're not sure this is what you want to do, then11000:06:29,260 --> 00:06:31,900I want to say that it's going to be hard.11100:06:31,900 --> 00:06:36,660And whenever the hard knocks come, it's going to knock you out.11200:06:36,660 --> 00:06:38,820Because research is not for the faint of heart.11300:06:38,820 --> 00:06:43,620Leading a research program is not for anybody who's wishy-washy about it.11400:06:43,620 --> 00:06:45,420Like, it literally is a commitment.11500:06:45,420 --> 00:06:47,620It's a commitment to persistence.11600:06:47,620 --> 00:06:51,780It's a commitment to going after funding after you've been rejected time after time after11700:06:51,780 --> 00:06:52,780time after time.11800:06:52,780 --> 00:06:54,380I mean, who wants to do that?11900:06:54,380 --> 00:06:56,740And so you only do it if you commit.12000:06:56,740 --> 00:07:01,580And so that's the first thing you got to do is commit to building a research program.12100:07:01,580 --> 00:07:03,180Say to yourself, this is going to be hard.12200:07:03,180 --> 00:07:04,180I'm going to be rejected.12300:07:04,180 --> 00:07:08,260There are times it's going to suck and I'm committing to this process.12400:07:08,260 --> 00:07:09,740And that's really the first step.12500:07:09,740 --> 00:07:14,420I would say that if you cannot commit, if you are not committed to the process, if you're12600:07:14,420 --> 00:07:24,380not committed to the journey, then I'm not really sure that you should move forward.12700:07:24,380 --> 00:07:27,700And I know everybody's not here to lead a research program.12800:07:27,700 --> 00:07:30,900You can participate in research without leading research.12900:07:30,900 --> 00:07:33,140You can contribute without leading research.13000:07:33,140 --> 00:07:34,500But that's not what I'm talking about.13100:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,180I'm really talking about leading a research program.13200:07:37,180 --> 00:07:39,180That's the commitment.13300:07:39,180 --> 00:07:41,020Participating in research doesn't require commitment.13400:07:41,020 --> 00:07:42,580You do a little bit here, you do a little bit there.13500:07:42,580 --> 00:07:43,580If it works out, great.13600:07:43,580 --> 00:07:44,820If it doesn't work out, great.13700:07:44,820 --> 00:07:50,780But if you're going to build a program in which other people come and build their careers13800:07:50,780 --> 00:07:54,500out of your program, you got to commit.13900:07:54,500 --> 00:07:57,500So step number one is commitment.14000:07:57,500 --> 00:07:59,260You make a commitment.14100:07:59,260 --> 00:08:00,260Okay.14200:08:00,260 --> 00:08:03,420Step number two is get clear about what is needed to succeed.14300:08:03,420 --> 00:08:08,460And one of the things that clinicians especially need to get clear about is the fact that clinical14400:08:08,460 --> 00:08:10,260training is not research training.14500:08:10,260 --> 00:08:12,380I'm going to say that again.14600:08:12,380 --> 00:08:14,700Clinical training is not research training.14700:08:14,700 --> 00:08:16,940Yes, you did some research methods.14800:08:16,940 --> 00:08:20,940Yes, you had a chance to do a little bit of scholarly activities throughout your clinical14900:08:20,940 --> 00:08:23,620training, but it is not research training.15000:08:23,620 --> 00:08:27,420If you want to see what research training looks like, you go to a PhD program where15100:08:27,420 --> 00:08:30,340people are actually trained in research methods.15200:08:30,340 --> 00:08:31,660That is research training.15300:08:31,660 --> 00:08:32,660Okay.15400:08:32,660 --> 00:08:37,780So you got to get clear about what is the gap between where you are right now, oh, excellently15500:08:37,780 --> 00:08:44,020trained clinician, and where you're going to be someone who is able to understand research,15600:08:44,020 --> 00:08:50,580what methodology is needed, what is required to make a program succeed.15700:08:50,580 --> 00:08:55,420And if you don't know, it's time to phone up a friend, usually a PhD scientist or maybe15800:08:55,420 --> 00:09:01,820an MD scientist or an MD physician or an MD PhD who is succeeding in research, right?15900:09:01,820 --> 00:09:05,220Because everybody who's MD who's doing research is not necessarily leading a program.16000:09:05,220 --> 00:09:09,040And everybody who's MD PhD is not necessarily leading a research program either.16100:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,260So don't go by title, go by what people are doing and spend some time with people.16200:09:14,260 --> 00:09:15,260Ask questions.16300:09:15,260 --> 00:09:16,940Hey, how is this working out?16400:09:16,940 --> 00:09:18,460What do you need to succeed?16500:09:18,460 --> 00:09:19,460What does it take?16600:09:19,460 --> 00:09:23,780And you really need to do this because people will get real with you.16700:09:23,780 --> 00:09:28,660And the reason it's important is because people will tell you, you cannot succeed in building16800:09:28,660 --> 00:09:31,380a research program being 100% clinical.16900:09:31,380 --> 00:09:32,780It doesn't happen.17000:09:32,780 --> 00:09:36,340The reason it doesn't happen is because clinical care is not research.17100:09:36,340 --> 00:09:42,180This is very hard for many clinicians to imagine that leading a research program means not17200:09:42,180 --> 00:09:44,420being fully clinical.17300:09:44,420 --> 00:09:50,700Because for many of us clinicians, we didn't go into medical school to lead research programs.17400:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,820I mean, we didn't go into medical school to not do clinical care.17500:09:54,820 --> 00:09:56,480We did the whole thing.17600:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,560We went through residency and fellowships so we could take care of patients.17700:10:00,560 --> 00:10:07,580And so when you finally figure out that research and to really build and lead a research program17800:10:07,580 --> 00:10:12,980means taking time away from clinical care, for many clinicians, it's like a shock.17900:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,980It's like, no, I love my patients.18000:10:15,980 --> 00:10:16,980And it's good.18100:10:16,980 --> 00:10:21,820And the reason you need to get clear is so that you decide, is this what you want to18200:10:21,820 --> 00:10:22,820do?18300:10:22,820 --> 00:10:26,020If leading a research program means that you're not going to be seeing patients five days18400:10:26,020 --> 00:10:27,560a week, is that for you?18500:10:27,560 --> 00:10:29,140Is it what you want?18600:10:29,140 --> 00:10:30,780Is it the life you want to build?18700:10:30,780 --> 00:10:33,980And if the answer is no, it's okay.18800:10:33,980 --> 00:10:36,460It is absolutely okay.18900:10:36,460 --> 00:10:41,940But you want to know and you want to choose and you want to make an informed decision.19000:10:41,940 --> 00:10:44,580So go get clear about what you need.19100:10:44,580 --> 00:10:46,280Call your friends, not your friends.19200:10:46,280 --> 00:10:52,660Usually they're ahead of you because if you're in this place, you're not.19300:10:52,660 --> 00:10:54,980Your friends might not be leading research programs.19400:10:54,980 --> 00:10:55,980They're ahead of you probably.19500:10:55,980 --> 00:11:00,420But anyway, get clear about what is needed to succeed in research.19600:11:00,420 --> 00:11:01,420Okay.19700:11:01,420 --> 00:11:04,260Now you've figured out, okay, you've made the commitment.19800:11:04,260 --> 00:11:06,820You're clear about what is needed to succeed.19900:11:06,820 --> 00:11:08,860Your next step is to create structure.20000:11:08,860 --> 00:11:12,180And what do I mean by creating structure?20100:11:12,180 --> 00:11:15,620It's creating structure by which research succeeds.20200:11:15,620 --> 00:11:17,020What do I mean by that?20300:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,020Okay.20400:11:18,020 --> 00:11:21,860If you are a research scientist, you are also a writer.20500:11:21,860 --> 00:11:23,700You are a science communicator.20600:11:23,700 --> 00:11:28,980That means you take time to communicate your science, number one, to funders.20700:11:28,980 --> 00:11:32,340You got to say, hey, funders, this is my idea.20800:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,700This is why you've got to give me money.20900:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,860That's one form of communication.21000:11:36,860 --> 00:11:41,860Your second form of communication is to the research community, the scientific community,21100:11:41,860 --> 00:11:44,100saying, hey, I've already done some stuff.21200:11:44,100 --> 00:11:45,100This is what we found.21300:11:45,100 --> 00:11:46,100Here it is, right?21400:11:46,100 --> 00:11:50,860You got to get through the peer review process to be able to communicate your research through21500:11:50,860 --> 00:11:51,860journals.21600:11:51,860 --> 00:11:52,860Okay.21700:11:52,860 --> 00:11:56,700So you're a science communicator communicating your research through publication.21800:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,820But then you're also a communicator as you're communicating to your peers.21900:12:00,820 --> 00:12:05,020You're saying, hey, I'm going to come to your conference and talk about my research.22000:12:05,020 --> 00:12:07,620So you are a science communicator.22100:12:07,620 --> 00:12:11,820And you've got to create structure to be an effective science communicator.22200:12:11,820 --> 00:12:14,820And that means creating structure for your daily writing.22300:12:14,820 --> 00:12:17,500I did say daily, not binge writing.22400:12:17,500 --> 00:12:22,100Like every once, once every three months, you have eight hours and then you can go churn22500:12:22,100 --> 00:12:26,380out a manuscript or churn out three manuscripts or maybe even four.22600:12:26,380 --> 00:12:32,700Not that, but daily consistent writing, daily consistent thinking about your research, daily22700:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,300consistent moving your research forward.22800:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,180It doesn't happen by accident.22900:12:37,180 --> 00:12:39,060Doesn't happen seridebitiously.23000:12:39,060 --> 00:12:42,300If you're a clinician, your patients will always take you away.23100:12:42,300 --> 00:12:47,220Your patient care activities, I shouldn't say patients, your patient care activities23200:12:47,220 --> 00:12:51,540will always try to take you away from leading your research program.23300:12:51,540 --> 00:12:56,140Creating structure allows you to say, hey, patient care related activities, this is where23400:12:56,140 --> 00:12:57,780you fit.23500:12:57,780 --> 00:13:01,820And hey, research related activities, this is where you fit.23600:13:01,820 --> 00:13:04,820And structure allows you to do that.23700:13:04,820 --> 00:13:05,820Okay.23800:13:05,820 --> 00:13:08,100So create structure.23900:13:08,100 --> 00:13:11,260The next thing you've got to do is own your clinical expertise.24000:13:11,260 --> 00:13:13,680You have got to own your clinical expertise.24100:13:13,680 --> 00:13:18,740If you are a clinician trying to break into research, you cannot be a clinician in one24200:13:18,740 --> 00:13:21,500field and a researcher in a different field.24300:13:21,500 --> 00:13:23,060It doesn't work well.24400:13:23,060 --> 00:13:27,100The reason it doesn't work well is because there's no overlap between what you're interested24500:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,700in clinically and what you're doing for research.24600:13:29,700 --> 00:13:35,860You have to go every time you're having to take time away from your usual life to go24700:13:35,860 --> 00:13:39,420figure out whatever is needed in your research.24800:13:39,420 --> 00:13:44,420And that's why it makes sense and it works best if what you're researching is in your24900:13:44,420 --> 00:13:45,420clinical area.25000:13:45,420 --> 00:13:48,500So you're a hematologist, you're doing hematology research.25100:13:48,500 --> 00:13:51,100You are very interested in thrombosis.25200:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,980You're seeing patients who have thrombosis.25300:13:52,980 --> 00:13:55,240You're doing research in thrombosis.25400:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,780So your clinical area and your research area do need to overlap.25500:13:59,780 --> 00:14:02,540I have to tell you that it's very difficult.25600:14:02,540 --> 00:14:07,700I can't tell you whether it's impossible or not, but it is very difficult to do research25700:14:07,700 --> 00:14:12,700in an area that's disparate from your area of focus.25800:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,340Now your area of clinical focus.25900:14:15,340 --> 00:14:19,620Now that's not to say you can't have a mentor outside of your field because what you get26000:14:19,620 --> 00:14:22,460from mentors is not necessarily the clinical expertise.26100:14:22,460 --> 00:14:30,660You already have that, but you've got to really make sure that your focus, your research area,26200:14:30,660 --> 00:14:34,660your disease focus really overlaps with what you see clinically.26300:14:34,660 --> 00:14:37,260And that allows you to own your clinical expertise.26400:14:37,260 --> 00:14:41,540It allows you not to go looking for the clinician who can help you move forward.26500:14:41,540 --> 00:14:45,280And that's one thing that I see that I think can be a challenge.26600:14:45,280 --> 00:14:52,820When we as clinicians already expert clinically in one area, we don't actually need another26700:14:52,820 --> 00:14:59,980clinician to partner with in research in the sense that, yes, we can partner with researchers26800:14:59,980 --> 00:15:04,700who are with clinicians who can provide patients for our studies, sure.26900:15:04,700 --> 00:15:10,180But when it comes to partnership that brings synergy, usually what I've seen work is the27000:15:10,180 --> 00:15:13,540partnership of a clinician with a methodologist.27100:15:13,540 --> 00:15:18,680But owning your expertise allows you to come to the table as a contributor.27200:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,300Someone saying, hey, I'm not here just for you to feed me.27300:15:21,300 --> 00:15:27,620I'm bringing something solid to the table and I want you to be a partner because it27400:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,900is so important that you do that.27500:15:29,900 --> 00:15:34,820One of the things I see is this deficit mindset from many junior faculty where it's like,27600:15:34,820 --> 00:15:38,700well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't have, I need a mentor, there's nobody to help27700:15:38,700 --> 00:15:39,700me.27800:15:39,700 --> 00:15:41,580And yes, you do need a mentor.27900:15:41,580 --> 00:15:49,100You need many things, but first own what you have, own what you got, own your expertise.28000:15:49,100 --> 00:15:50,100That's the first step.28100:15:50,100 --> 00:15:52,240It's the first step to confidence.28200:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,060It is difficult to lead a research program if you are not confident.28300:15:57,060 --> 00:16:01,460If you have this mindset of deficit where it's like, I don't have enough, I don't have28400:16:01,460 --> 00:16:05,140enough, and you come across to people as needy.28500:16:05,140 --> 00:16:09,920I have to tell you that many people do not like to connect with needy people.28600:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,460People like to connect with people who are bringing something to the table.28700:16:13,460 --> 00:16:18,460When you own your clinical expertise, you are clearly an expert who's bringing something28800:16:18,460 --> 00:16:19,460to the table.28900:16:19,460 --> 00:16:23,900And so I want you to own your clinical expertise.29000:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,140The next thing you're going to do is you're going to collaborate with research methodologists.29100:16:27,140 --> 00:16:32,060Look, the reality is clinical training is not research training.29200:16:32,060 --> 00:16:37,100And I am excited for you if you were able to get two full years of research out of your29300:16:37,100 --> 00:16:38,220fellowship.29400:16:38,220 --> 00:16:45,560Many of us were not, but even then, that's not really a full breadth of research training29500:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,660as say our colleagues, the PhD scientists get.29600:16:49,660 --> 00:16:52,700And so you can go and start from scratch.29700:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,420You can go get a PhD.29800:16:54,420 --> 00:16:56,620Absolutely you could.29900:16:56,620 --> 00:17:02,140Or you could just connect with a PhD researcher who already has a methodology that you are30000:17:02,140 --> 00:17:03,980trying to learn.30100:17:03,980 --> 00:17:08,780And you bring your clinical expertise to them and you're helping them learn and grow.30200:17:08,780 --> 00:17:12,940Because if you're going to be a successful researcher, you actually do need some clinical30300:17:12,940 --> 00:17:15,200knowledge as well as research knowledge.30400:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,200You need both.30500:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,580If you're going to do research, it's going to be beneficial to patients.30600:17:19,580 --> 00:17:20,580You need both.30700:17:20,580 --> 00:17:25,540And so when you come to the research methodologist, you're like, hey, I'm a clinical expert here.30800:17:25,540 --> 00:17:28,280I don't know as much methodology.30900:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,020How can I learn from you?31000:17:30,020 --> 00:17:31,780And they're like, well, I'm the research methodologist.31100:17:31,780 --> 00:17:33,940I'm an expert here.31200:17:33,940 --> 00:17:35,700But I don't have the clinical expertise.31300:17:35,700 --> 00:17:41,660Then, oh my goodness, what synergy exists between you and the research methodologist?31400:17:41,660 --> 00:17:46,980Because then you can both simultaneously mutually benefit each other.31500:17:46,980 --> 00:17:49,400It is such an amazing experience.31600:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,620And you don't have to do their work for them.31700:17:53,620 --> 00:17:55,680They don't have to do your work for you.31800:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,940But in providing a clinical expertise and learning from their research expertise, you31900:17:59,940 --> 00:18:02,500grow in your research expertise.32000:18:02,500 --> 00:18:06,700I will tell you that I had a conversation with one of my collaborators recently.32100:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,980And she said, I was speaking like a methodologist.32200:18:09,980 --> 00:18:10,980It was so exciting.32300:18:10,980 --> 00:18:14,220I was like, oh my gosh, I'm learning.32400:18:14,220 --> 00:18:15,460I'm learning.32500:18:15,460 --> 00:18:21,100And that's what happens when you collaborate with someone whose expertise is in an area32600:18:21,100 --> 00:18:23,140that's different from your own expertise.32700:18:23,140 --> 00:18:24,820You grow and you learn.32800:18:24,820 --> 00:18:26,220It's a beautiful thing.32900:18:26,220 --> 00:18:28,500And it helps you accelerate your research.33000:18:28,500 --> 00:18:29,500OK.33100:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,740Then the next thing you've got to do is connect to resources.33200:18:32,740 --> 00:18:33,880OK.33300:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,980Research doesn't happen unless it's funded.33400:18:36,980 --> 00:18:42,220And it may be that you've been funding it by working without pay on nights and weekends.33500:18:42,220 --> 00:18:45,020Please do not let that be your life.33600:18:45,020 --> 00:18:50,900Or you find a funder who helps you fund the work so that you can do it during the daytime33700:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,020as part of your daytime work.33800:18:53,020 --> 00:18:55,180Absolutely recommended.33900:18:55,180 --> 00:18:56,500You need funding.34000:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,100Connecting to resources is about finding funding.34100:18:59,100 --> 00:19:00,180But here's the thing.34200:19:00,180 --> 00:19:02,180Everybody wants to start with NIH funding.34300:19:02,180 --> 00:19:04,100And NIH funding is awesome.34400:19:04,100 --> 00:19:09,260Thank you, government NIH, for giving us federal financial assistance through the form of NIH34500:19:09,260 --> 00:19:10,260grants.34600:19:10,260 --> 00:19:12,300Yes, NIH grants are awesome.34700:19:12,300 --> 00:19:13,300And you know what?34800:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,340The competition for those is kind of stiff.34900:19:15,340 --> 00:19:19,420And if you're just starting out, you're not likely to be competitive for an NIH grant35000:19:19,420 --> 00:19:20,880by yourself.35100:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,100Maybe collaborating with a PhD scientist, you might be able to be.35200:19:25,100 --> 00:19:31,220But starting out, especially if you're applying as the leader of your research program, as35300:19:31,220 --> 00:19:34,980like the PI, you might not be so successful.35400:19:34,980 --> 00:19:37,980But you might be more successful looking at foundation grants.35500:19:37,980 --> 00:19:41,680You may be more successful looking at seed grants within your institution.35600:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,580You may be more successful looking at seed grants from corporations or industry.35700:19:47,580 --> 00:19:50,300There is an opportunity for you.35800:19:50,300 --> 00:19:51,300OK.35900:19:51,300 --> 00:19:56,740If you are someone who's not been funded yet, I just want you to say after me, there is36000:19:56,740 --> 00:19:58,380an opportunity for me.36100:19:58,380 --> 00:19:59,380Oh, you know what?36200:19:59,380 --> 00:20:02,640Even if you have been funded, you're probably looking for more funding.36300:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,160Say after me.36400:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,220There is an opportunity for me.36500:20:07,220 --> 00:20:08,220Great.36600:20:08,220 --> 00:20:09,220Great.36700:20:09,220 --> 00:20:14,720It's important for you to recognize that there are people waiting to fund you.36800:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,600It may not be NIH just yet, but there are people waiting to fund you.36900:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,020Don't look at the people who are not letting you in.37000:20:22,020 --> 00:20:25,820Look around for the people who are letting you in.37100:20:25,820 --> 00:20:27,500Connect to resources.37200:20:27,500 --> 00:20:30,300And resources are not just funders.37300:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,240Resources are medical students looking for a project.37400:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,000Resources are residents who want to publish.37500:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,680Resources are fellows who are looking for opportunities.37600:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,100Look around and see what you already have.37700:20:42,100 --> 00:20:44,880Do not close your eyes saying, I have nothing.37800:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,540And then literally people around you waiting for opportunity.37900:20:48,540 --> 00:20:49,780Connect to resources.38000:20:49,780 --> 00:20:51,700They are all around you.38100:20:51,700 --> 00:20:57,140The final thing I want to share with you is the need to connect with community.38200:20:57,140 --> 00:21:01,640If you're a clinician looking to transition to become a research scientist, you are a38300:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,660minority of folk.38400:21:03,660 --> 00:21:04,660Right?38500:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,800You're in the minority.38600:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,960And there are not many people around you that want to do the same unless you are intentional38700:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,120about finding that community.38800:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,700I want to invite you to find community, to reach out to people who are thinking like38900:21:19,700 --> 00:21:22,400you, trying to do what you're doing.39000:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,400Find community.39100:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,820When I am talking about community, I'm not just talking about mentors.39200:21:26,820 --> 00:21:27,940Oh, yes.39300:21:27,940 --> 00:21:30,480Mentors are everywhere and they're so hard to talk to.39400:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,140They're so busy.39500:21:32,140 --> 00:21:34,460And I thank God for all my mentors.39600:21:34,460 --> 00:21:36,700Mentors, I appreciate you very much.39700:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,520I'm a mentor.39800:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,140You know, there's just a lot going on.39900:21:42,140 --> 00:21:46,080And the mentors don't think like you do anymore because they're past a lot of things.40000:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,620They don't even remember the things they used to not know.40100:21:48,620 --> 00:21:49,620Right?40200:21:49,620 --> 00:21:50,620It's the way it is.40300:21:50,620 --> 00:21:54,860But there's a group of peers who's trying to do what you're doing.40400:21:54,860 --> 00:22:00,140There's a group of people across the country, across the world even, who are trying to move40500:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,500in the same direction that you're moving in.40600:22:02,500 --> 00:22:06,500You got to get in community with them because there will be some people in that community40700:22:06,500 --> 00:22:09,620who are a little bit ahead of you and will inspire you to more.40800:22:09,620 --> 00:22:14,940There'll be people who are not as far as you and you'll be able to inspire them to more.40900:22:14,940 --> 00:22:19,340There'll be people who are right about where you are and you'll be able to encourage each41000:22:19,340 --> 00:22:20,340other.41100:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,340It'll be so awesome.41200:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,020But you do have to find community.41300:22:24,020 --> 00:22:27,620And most of the time, if you're going to find a community of clinicians trying to make the41400:22:27,620 --> 00:22:32,500transition to lead research programs, you got to leave your regular environment, your41500:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,220regular habitat and go find them.41600:22:35,220 --> 00:22:36,540They're there.41700:22:36,540 --> 00:22:37,540We are here.41800:22:37,540 --> 00:22:39,340And we exist.41900:22:39,340 --> 00:22:43,380And we're in hiding because you got to move away from people who are not doing what you're42000:22:43,380 --> 00:22:47,860doing so you can get the encouragement you need to succeed in the way you want to succeed.42100:22:47,860 --> 00:22:49,980And I invite you to join community.42200:22:49,980 --> 00:22:57,220I invite you to join my community even as I am launching the next coaching series.42300:22:57,220 --> 00:23:03,060And so we're starting our next coaching session with our first webinar.42400:23:03,060 --> 00:23:04,820So we have a webinar coming up.42500:23:04,820 --> 00:23:08,620It's happening on November 20th at 6 p.m. Eastern time.42600:23:08,620 --> 00:23:14,380I want you to check out our research podcast, our podcast website.42700:23:14,380 --> 00:23:17,060That's ClinicianResearcherPodcast.com.42800:23:17,060 --> 00:23:23,100You can also check out our website, Coedcoach.com, for more information about the upcoming webinar.42900:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,780But I do want you to come and find out.43000:23:25,780 --> 00:23:30,700I'm going to talk about five ways to make the transition from clinician to researcher.43100:23:30,700 --> 00:23:35,020I'll be talking a lot about what I've talked about today, but in a lot more detail and43200:23:35,020 --> 00:23:39,900giving you insight about how you too, if you are looking to make the same transition, can43300:23:39,900 --> 00:23:40,900transition.43400:23:40,900 --> 00:23:41,900All right.43500:23:41,900 --> 00:23:43,380So I want you to please share this episode.43600:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,580Somebody else needs to hear that they can.43700:23:45,580 --> 00:23:48,060Somebody else needs to hear that it's possible.43800:23:48,060 --> 00:23:51,120Somebody else needs to hear that it's not crazy.43900:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,060You absolutely can do this.44000:23:53,060 --> 00:23:58,100And I just want to encourage you to make the transition and to find the community that44100:23:58,100 --> 00:23:59,100helps you do that.44200:23:59,100 --> 00:24:00,100All right.44300:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,420It has been an absolute pleasure talking with you today.44400:24:02,420 --> 00:24:04,340Thank you for taking the time to listen.44500:24:04,340 --> 00:24:15,940I look forward to talking with you again the next time.44600:24:15,940 --> 00:24:21,300Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic44700:24:21,300 --> 00:24:26,780clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they44800:24:26,780 --> 00:24:28,100have a mentor.44900:24:28,100 --> 00:24:34,220If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.45000:24:34,220 --> 00:24:35,980Someone else needs to hear it.45100:24:35,980 --> 00:24:40,020So take a minute right now and share it.45200:24:40,020 --> 00:24:45,480As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation45300:24:45,480 --> 00:25:05,260of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.