How to transition from clinician to research leader

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills 2 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260 to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 3 00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340 As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. 4 00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380 When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find 5 00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780 that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research 6 00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200 program. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480 Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. 8 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580 However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs. 9 00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040 Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. 12 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,320 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. 13 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,900 I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you today. 14 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:08,900 Thank you for tuning in. 15 00:01:08,900 --> 00:01:13,520 Today, I'm going to talk about how clinicians can make the transition from clinician to 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,060 researcher. 17 00:01:15,060 --> 00:01:20,440 And I want to share it with you because it's a transition that I had to make when I first 18 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,200 started in my faculty career. 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,840 Now, the ideal time to start to make the transition is really in your fellowship, for those of 20 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:32,160 you who did a postdoctoral fellowship, because it's an opportunity for you to take two years 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,980 of research, which is usually the case in most of these fellowship programs that have 22 00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:39,360 a research component. 23 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:45,300 You take the two years to connect with a mentor, work in a mentor's research program, create 24 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:51,140 opportunities for scholarly productivity, so write papers, publish, and submit grants. 25 00:01:51,140 --> 00:01:57,100 And so ideally, you're done with the fellowship and you have already a couple of manuscripts 26 00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:58,200 in hand. 27 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:03,600 You have an area of expertise that you're building and you might have some grant funding. 28 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,260 Okay, that's the ideal. 29 00:02:06,260 --> 00:02:12,740 For someone like me, it didn't quite work out that way. 30 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:17,020 And it's not that I didn't really work hard to get some research opportunities during 31 00:02:17,020 --> 00:02:23,280 fellowship, it's that for different reasons, I wasn't able to get the mentoring that helps 32 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,120 me build the research in the way I wanted to. 33 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,260 And so I did apply for grant funding, I did publish a manuscript or two, but it really 34 00:02:31,260 --> 00:02:36,260 wasn't where it needed to be by the time I ended my faculty career. 35 00:02:36,260 --> 00:02:39,920 I mean, by the time I ended my fellowship. 36 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:45,540 And the challenge is when you now go, or at least when I went to seek a clinical research 37 00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:52,060 job or a job where I could be a clinician scientist, it didn't look as if I was a serious 38 00:02:52,060 --> 00:02:54,980 person from the perspective of the hiring party, right? 39 00:02:54,980 --> 00:03:00,180 So from the academic institution trying to hire me, it was like, well, you don't look 40 00:03:00,180 --> 00:03:01,660 like someone who knows how to do this. 41 00:03:01,660 --> 00:03:03,940 You don't look like someone who can't succeed. 42 00:03:03,940 --> 00:03:08,620 And so it makes it difficult when they go to advocate for this hire, they say, well, 43 00:03:08,620 --> 00:03:11,420 you want to hire this person as a physician scientist. 44 00:03:11,420 --> 00:03:17,440 And then people, the institution asks, where is the evidence that this person is going 45 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,580 to be able to do this successfully? 46 00:03:20,580 --> 00:03:25,580 The evidence they have for people like me is that, you know what, we've been doing clinical 47 00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:28,940 training for a long time and we're really good at the clinical things. 48 00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:34,740 But the research getting, the grant getting, the research structure, the creating manuscripts, 49 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:37,700 there is not that much evidence to support that. 50 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:40,980 And so I ended up really in a clinical job at the beginning. 51 00:03:40,980 --> 00:03:43,340 And for many clinicians, that's our trajectory. 52 00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:47,300 We start out fully clinical when we start our faculty careers, even though we want to 53 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:49,580 succeed as researchers. 54 00:03:49,580 --> 00:03:51,740 And that's a group I'm talking to today. 55 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:57,020 I'm talking to the group of people who didn't do all the things that were supposed to happen 56 00:03:57,020 --> 00:03:59,700 at the time that you completed your fellowship. 57 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:03,620 And now you're a faculty member trying to build a research program, but you're really 58 00:04:03,620 --> 00:04:06,940 fully clinical or mostly clinical. 59 00:04:06,940 --> 00:04:10,620 Nobody's ever 100% clinical, at least that's what they say on paper. 60 00:04:10,620 --> 00:04:14,020 But I want to talk to you because I do think it's possible. 61 00:04:14,020 --> 00:04:15,020 I know it's possible. 62 00:04:15,020 --> 00:04:16,100 I'm living the life. 63 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:18,020 So I know it's possible. 64 00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:20,640 I also know that it is challenging. 65 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,580 And I know that if you're going to do it, you actually need direction. 66 00:04:23,580 --> 00:04:26,500 Like it's not that kind of thing that just happens by accident. 67 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:31,880 It's the thing that happens because you are intentional about creating opportunities for 68 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,880 that to happen. 69 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,300 So I want to share some insights about that today. 70 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:38,580 And I also want to share with you that you can. 71 00:04:38,580 --> 00:04:41,740 You can succeed no matter what anybody says. 72 00:04:41,740 --> 00:04:42,740 You are qualified. 73 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:46,900 As someone who has come through medical training, you've already done the impossible. 74 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,160 You can do it again. 75 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,580 And so if anybody ever tells you you can't, you're not qualified, it's really not true. 76 00:04:52,580 --> 00:04:55,460 The question will always be, is this what you want to do? 77 00:04:55,460 --> 00:04:57,660 And are you willing to pay the price to do it? 78 00:04:57,660 --> 00:04:58,660 That's the question. 79 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:02,100 And if the answer to both is yes, then you absolutely should do it. 80 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:06,860 And I'm going to talk about seven ways that you can think about doing it. 81 00:05:06,860 --> 00:05:09,660 So number one is you've got to commit. 82 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:12,700 A research leadership pathway is a commitment. 83 00:05:12,700 --> 00:05:15,180 It's not a let's just do it and see how it works out. 84 00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:18,180 It's a commitment you make because it's going to be hard. 85 00:05:18,180 --> 00:05:19,940 You're going to fail. 86 00:05:19,940 --> 00:05:21,980 I like to say fail forward. 87 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:23,260 There's going to be challenges. 88 00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:26,420 There are times where you're going to be like, is this even worth it? 89 00:05:26,420 --> 00:05:28,100 It really is a commitment. 90 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:29,100 It's a commitment. 91 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:30,100 You say, I'm going to do this. 92 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:31,900 I'm going to make it work. 93 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,380 And if you're going to make this kind of commitment, it's like don't commit to someone in marriage 94 00:05:35,380 --> 00:05:38,020 unless you love them, right? 95 00:05:38,020 --> 00:05:43,760 Do not commit to research unless there's something about research that you really love, right? 96 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,260 Unless there's a project you want to move forward, unless it's a patient population 97 00:05:47,260 --> 00:05:50,020 that really resonates with you. 98 00:05:50,020 --> 00:05:53,020 Don't commit unless there is love. 99 00:05:53,020 --> 00:05:54,580 I really do mean that. 100 00:05:54,580 --> 00:05:58,380 And I know sometimes people are like, well, you know, everybody says you should do research, 101 00:05:58,380 --> 00:05:59,980 so I just want to do it. 102 00:05:59,980 --> 00:06:03,500 And I have to tell you that that doesn't sustain this long-term relationship. 103 00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:06,140 It is a long-term relationship. 104 00:06:06,140 --> 00:06:07,720 And there are people who quit along the way. 105 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,260 And it's not to say that you can't quit. 106 00:06:09,260 --> 00:06:14,780 I'm just saying that I'm not talking to people who are not committed. 107 00:06:14,780 --> 00:06:19,820 Because there's a different way you move forward when you are kind of like non-committal. 108 00:06:19,820 --> 00:06:22,820 You can like try it and see if it works out. 109 00:06:22,820 --> 00:06:29,260 But you know, if you are trying it and you're not sure this is what you want to do, then 110 00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:31,900 I want to say that it's going to be hard. 111 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:36,660 And whenever the hard knocks come, it's going to knock you out. 112 00:06:36,660 --> 00:06:38,820 Because research is not for the faint of heart. 113 00:06:38,820 --> 00:06:43,620 Leading a research program is not for anybody who's wishy-washy about it. 114 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:45,420 Like, it literally is a commitment. 115 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:47,620 It's a commitment to persistence. 116 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:51,780 It's a commitment to going after funding after you've been rejected time after time after 117 00:06:51,780 --> 00:06:52,780 time after time. 118 00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:54,380 I mean, who wants to do that? 119 00:06:54,380 --> 00:06:56,740 And so you only do it if you commit. 120 00:06:56,740 --> 00:07:01,580 And so that's the first thing you got to do is commit to building a research program. 121 00:07:01,580 --> 00:07:03,180 Say to yourself, this is going to be hard. 122 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:04,180 I'm going to be rejected. 123 00:07:04,180 --> 00:07:08,260 There are times it's going to suck and I'm committing to this process. 124 00:07:08,260 --> 00:07:09,740 And that's really the first step. 125 00:07:09,740 --> 00:07:14,420 I would say that if you cannot commit, if you are not committed to the process, if you're 126 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:24,380 not committed to the journey, then I'm not really sure that you should move forward. 127 00:07:24,380 --> 00:07:27,700 And I know everybody's not here to lead a research program. 128 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:30,900 You can participate in research without leading research. 129 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:33,140 You can contribute without leading research. 130 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:34,500 But that's not what I'm talking about. 131 00:07:34,500 --> 00:07:37,180 I'm really talking about leading a research program. 132 00:07:37,180 --> 00:07:39,180 That's the commitment. 133 00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:41,020 Participating in research doesn't require commitment. 134 00:07:41,020 --> 00:07:42,580 You do a little bit here, you do a little bit there. 135 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:43,580 If it works out, great. 136 00:07:43,580 --> 00:07:44,820 If it doesn't work out, great. 137 00:07:44,820 --> 00:07:50,780 But if you're going to build a program in which other people come and build their careers 138 00:07:50,780 --> 00:07:54,500 out of your program, you got to commit. 139 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:57,500 So step number one is commitment. 140 00:07:57,500 --> 00:07:59,260 You make a commitment. 141 00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:00,260 Okay. 142 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:03,420 Step number two is get clear about what is needed to succeed. 143 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:08,460 And one of the things that clinicians especially need to get clear about is the fact that clinical 144 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:10,260 training is not research training. 145 00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:12,380 I'm going to say that again. 146 00:08:12,380 --> 00:08:14,700 Clinical training is not research training. 147 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:16,940 Yes, you did some research methods. 148 00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:20,940 Yes, you had a chance to do a little bit of scholarly activities throughout your clinical 149 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:23,620 training, but it is not research training. 150 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:27,420 If you want to see what research training looks like, you go to a PhD program where 151 00:08:27,420 --> 00:08:30,340 people are actually trained in research methods. 152 00:08:30,340 --> 00:08:31,660 That is research training. 153 00:08:31,660 --> 00:08:32,660 Okay. 154 00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:37,780 So you got to get clear about what is the gap between where you are right now, oh, excellently 155 00:08:37,780 --> 00:08:44,020 trained clinician, and where you're going to be someone who is able to understand research, 156 00:08:44,020 --> 00:08:50,580 what methodology is needed, what is required to make a program succeed. 157 00:08:50,580 --> 00:08:55,420 And if you don't know, it's time to phone up a friend, usually a PhD scientist or maybe 158 00:08:55,420 --> 00:09:01,820 an MD scientist or an MD physician or an MD PhD who is succeeding in research, right? 159 00:09:01,820 --> 00:09:05,220 Because everybody who's MD who's doing research is not necessarily leading a program. 160 00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:09,040 And everybody who's MD PhD is not necessarily leading a research program either. 161 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,260 So don't go by title, go by what people are doing and spend some time with people. 162 00:09:14,260 --> 00:09:15,260 Ask questions. 163 00:09:15,260 --> 00:09:16,940 Hey, how is this working out? 164 00:09:16,940 --> 00:09:18,460 What do you need to succeed? 165 00:09:18,460 --> 00:09:19,460 What does it take? 166 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:23,780 And you really need to do this because people will get real with you. 167 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:28,660 And the reason it's important is because people will tell you, you cannot succeed in building 168 00:09:28,660 --> 00:09:31,380 a research program being 100% clinical. 169 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:32,780 It doesn't happen. 170 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:36,340 The reason it doesn't happen is because clinical care is not research. 171 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:42,180 This is very hard for many clinicians to imagine that leading a research program means not 172 00:09:42,180 --> 00:09:44,420 being fully clinical. 173 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:50,700 Because for many of us clinicians, we didn't go into medical school to lead research programs. 174 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,820 I mean, we didn't go into medical school to not do clinical care. 175 00:09:54,820 --> 00:09:56,480 We did the whole thing. 176 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,560 We went through residency and fellowships so we could take care of patients. 177 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:07,580 And so when you finally figure out that research and to really build and lead a research program 178 00:10:07,580 --> 00:10:12,980 means taking time away from clinical care, for many clinicians, it's like a shock. 179 00:10:12,980 --> 00:10:15,980 It's like, no, I love my patients. 180 00:10:15,980 --> 00:10:16,980 And it's good. 181 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:21,820 And the reason you need to get clear is so that you decide, is this what you want to 182 00:10:21,820 --> 00:10:22,820 do? 183 00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:26,020 If leading a research program means that you're not going to be seeing patients five days 184 00:10:26,020 --> 00:10:27,560 a week, is that for you? 185 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:29,140 Is it what you want? 186 00:10:29,140 --> 00:10:30,780 Is it the life you want to build? 187 00:10:30,780 --> 00:10:33,980 And if the answer is no, it's okay. 188 00:10:33,980 --> 00:10:36,460 It is absolutely okay. 189 00:10:36,460 --> 00:10:41,940 But you want to know and you want to choose and you want to make an informed decision. 190 00:10:41,940 --> 00:10:44,580 So go get clear about what you need. 191 00:10:44,580 --> 00:10:46,280 Call your friends, not your friends. 192 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:52,660 Usually they're ahead of you because if you're in this place, you're not. 193 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:54,980 Your friends might not be leading research programs. 194 00:10:54,980 --> 00:10:55,980 They're ahead of you probably. 195 00:10:55,980 --> 00:11:00,420 But anyway, get clear about what is needed to succeed in research. 196 00:11:00,420 --> 00:11:01,420 Okay. 197 00:11:01,420 --> 00:11:04,260 Now you've figured out, okay, you've made the commitment. 198 00:11:04,260 --> 00:11:06,820 You're clear about what is needed to succeed. 199 00:11:06,820 --> 00:11:08,860 Your next step is to create structure. 200 00:11:08,860 --> 00:11:12,180 And what do I mean by creating structure? 201 00:11:12,180 --> 00:11:15,620 It's creating structure by which research succeeds. 202 00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:17,020 What do I mean by that? 203 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,020 Okay. 204 00:11:18,020 --> 00:11:21,860 If you are a research scientist, you are also a writer. 205 00:11:21,860 --> 00:11:23,700 You are a science communicator. 206 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:28,980 That means you take time to communicate your science, number one, to funders. 207 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:32,340 You got to say, hey, funders, this is my idea. 208 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,700 This is why you've got to give me money. 209 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,860 That's one form of communication. 210 00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:41,860 Your second form of communication is to the research community, the scientific community, 211 00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:44,100 saying, hey, I've already done some stuff. 212 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:45,100 This is what we found. 213 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:46,100 Here it is, right? 214 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:50,860 You got to get through the peer review process to be able to communicate your research through 215 00:11:50,860 --> 00:11:51,860 journals. 216 00:11:51,860 --> 00:11:52,860 Okay. 217 00:11:52,860 --> 00:11:56,700 So you're a science communicator communicating your research through publication. 218 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,820 But then you're also a communicator as you're communicating to your peers. 219 00:12:00,820 --> 00:12:05,020 You're saying, hey, I'm going to come to your conference and talk about my research. 220 00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:07,620 So you are a science communicator. 221 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:11,820 And you've got to create structure to be an effective science communicator. 222 00:12:11,820 --> 00:12:14,820 And that means creating structure for your daily writing. 223 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:17,500 I did say daily, not binge writing. 224 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:22,100 Like every once, once every three months, you have eight hours and then you can go churn 225 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:26,380 out a manuscript or churn out three manuscripts or maybe even four. 226 00:12:26,380 --> 00:12:32,700 Not that, but daily consistent writing, daily consistent thinking about your research, daily 227 00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:35,300 consistent moving your research forward. 228 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,180 It doesn't happen by accident. 229 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:39,060 Doesn't happen seridebitiously. 230 00:12:39,060 --> 00:12:42,300 If you're a clinician, your patients will always take you away. 231 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:47,220 Your patient care activities, I shouldn't say patients, your patient care activities 232 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:51,540 will always try to take you away from leading your research program. 233 00:12:51,540 --> 00:12:56,140 Creating structure allows you to say, hey, patient care related activities, this is where 234 00:12:56,140 --> 00:12:57,780 you fit. 235 00:12:57,780 --> 00:13:01,820 And hey, research related activities, this is where you fit. 236 00:13:01,820 --> 00:13:04,820 And structure allows you to do that. 237 00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:05,820 Okay. 238 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:08,100 So create structure. 239 00:13:08,100 --> 00:13:11,260 The next thing you've got to do is own your clinical expertise. 240 00:13:11,260 --> 00:13:13,680 You have got to own your clinical expertise. 241 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:18,740 If you are a clinician trying to break into research, you cannot be a clinician in one 242 00:13:18,740 --> 00:13:21,500 field and a researcher in a different field. 243 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:23,060 It doesn't work well. 244 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:27,100 The reason it doesn't work well is because there's no overlap between what you're interested 245 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:29,700 in clinically and what you're doing for research. 246 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:35,860 You have to go every time you're having to take time away from your usual life to go 247 00:13:35,860 --> 00:13:39,420 figure out whatever is needed in your research. 248 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:44,420 And that's why it makes sense and it works best if what you're researching is in your 249 00:13:44,420 --> 00:13:45,420 clinical area. 250 00:13:45,420 --> 00:13:48,500 So you're a hematologist, you're doing hematology research. 251 00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:51,100 You are very interested in thrombosis. 252 00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,980 You're seeing patients who have thrombosis. 253 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:55,240 You're doing research in thrombosis. 254 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,780 So your clinical area and your research area do need to overlap. 255 00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:02,540 I have to tell you that it's very difficult. 256 00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:07,700 I can't tell you whether it's impossible or not, but it is very difficult to do research 257 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:12,700 in an area that's disparate from your area of focus. 258 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,340 Now your area of clinical focus. 259 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:19,620 Now that's not to say you can't have a mentor outside of your field because what you get 260 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:22,460 from mentors is not necessarily the clinical expertise. 261 00:14:22,460 --> 00:14:30,660 You already have that, but you've got to really make sure that your focus, your research area, 262 00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:34,660 your disease focus really overlaps with what you see clinically. 263 00:14:34,660 --> 00:14:37,260 And that allows you to own your clinical expertise. 264 00:14:37,260 --> 00:14:41,540 It allows you not to go looking for the clinician who can help you move forward. 265 00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:45,280 And that's one thing that I see that I think can be a challenge. 266 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:52,820 When we as clinicians already expert clinically in one area, we don't actually need another 267 00:14:52,820 --> 00:14:59,980 clinician to partner with in research in the sense that, yes, we can partner with researchers 268 00:14:59,980 --> 00:15:04,700 who are with clinicians who can provide patients for our studies, sure. 269 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:10,180 But when it comes to partnership that brings synergy, usually what I've seen work is the 270 00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:13,540 partnership of a clinician with a methodologist. 271 00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:18,680 But owning your expertise allows you to come to the table as a contributor. 272 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,300 Someone saying, hey, I'm not here just for you to feed me. 273 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:27,620 I'm bringing something solid to the table and I want you to be a partner because it 274 00:15:27,620 --> 00:15:29,900 is so important that you do that. 275 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:34,820 One of the things I see is this deficit mindset from many junior faculty where it's like, 276 00:15:34,820 --> 00:15:38,700 well, I don't know, I don't know, I don't have, I need a mentor, there's nobody to help 277 00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:39,700 me. 278 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:41,580 And yes, you do need a mentor. 279 00:15:41,580 --> 00:15:49,100 You need many things, but first own what you have, own what you got, own your expertise. 280 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:50,100 That's the first step. 281 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:52,240 It's the first step to confidence. 282 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:57,060 It is difficult to lead a research program if you are not confident. 283 00:15:57,060 --> 00:16:01,460 If you have this mindset of deficit where it's like, I don't have enough, I don't have 284 00:16:01,460 --> 00:16:05,140 enough, and you come across to people as needy. 285 00:16:05,140 --> 00:16:09,920 I have to tell you that many people do not like to connect with needy people. 286 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,460 People like to connect with people who are bringing something to the table. 287 00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:18,460 When you own your clinical expertise, you are clearly an expert who's bringing something 288 00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:19,460 to the table. 289 00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:23,900 And so I want you to own your clinical expertise. 290 00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,140 The next thing you're going to do is you're going to collaborate with research methodologists. 291 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:32,060 Look, the reality is clinical training is not research training. 292 00:16:32,060 --> 00:16:37,100 And I am excited for you if you were able to get two full years of research out of your 293 00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:38,220 fellowship. 294 00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:45,560 Many of us were not, but even then, that's not really a full breadth of research training 295 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,660 as say our colleagues, the PhD scientists get. 296 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:52,700 And so you can go and start from scratch. 297 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:54,420 You can go get a PhD. 298 00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:56,620 Absolutely you could. 299 00:16:56,620 --> 00:17:02,140 Or you could just connect with a PhD researcher who already has a methodology that you are 300 00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:03,980 trying to learn. 301 00:17:03,980 --> 00:17:08,780 And you bring your clinical expertise to them and you're helping them learn and grow. 302 00:17:08,780 --> 00:17:12,940 Because if you're going to be a successful researcher, you actually do need some clinical 303 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:15,200 knowledge as well as research knowledge. 304 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,200 You need both. 305 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,580 If you're going to do research, it's going to be beneficial to patients. 306 00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:20,580 You need both. 307 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:25,540 And so when you come to the research methodologist, you're like, hey, I'm a clinical expert here. 308 00:17:25,540 --> 00:17:28,280 I don't know as much methodology. 309 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,020 How can I learn from you? 310 00:17:30,020 --> 00:17:31,780 And they're like, well, I'm the research methodologist. 311 00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:33,940 I'm an expert here. 312 00:17:33,940 --> 00:17:35,700 But I don't have the clinical expertise. 313 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:41,660 Then, oh my goodness, what synergy exists between you and the research methodologist? 314 00:17:41,660 --> 00:17:46,980 Because then you can both simultaneously mutually benefit each other. 315 00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:49,400 It is such an amazing experience. 316 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,620 And you don't have to do their work for them. 317 00:17:53,620 --> 00:17:55,680 They don't have to do your work for you. 318 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,940 But in providing a clinical expertise and learning from their research expertise, you 319 00:17:59,940 --> 00:18:02,500 grow in your research expertise. 320 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:06,700 I will tell you that I had a conversation with one of my collaborators recently. 321 00:18:06,700 --> 00:18:09,980 And she said, I was speaking like a methodologist. 322 00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:10,980 It was so exciting. 323 00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:14,220 I was like, oh my gosh, I'm learning. 324 00:18:14,220 --> 00:18:15,460 I'm learning. 325 00:18:15,460 --> 00:18:21,100 And that's what happens when you collaborate with someone whose expertise is in an area 326 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:23,140 that's different from your own expertise. 327 00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:24,820 You grow and you learn. 328 00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:26,220 It's a beautiful thing. 329 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:28,500 And it helps you accelerate your research. 330 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:29,500 OK. 331 00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,740 Then the next thing you've got to do is connect to resources. 332 00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:33,880 OK. 333 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,980 Research doesn't happen unless it's funded. 334 00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:42,220 And it may be that you've been funding it by working without pay on nights and weekends. 335 00:18:42,220 --> 00:18:45,020 Please do not let that be your life. 336 00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:50,900 Or you find a funder who helps you fund the work so that you can do it during the daytime 337 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,020 as part of your daytime work. 338 00:18:53,020 --> 00:18:55,180 Absolutely recommended. 339 00:18:55,180 --> 00:18:56,500 You need funding. 340 00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,100 Connecting to resources is about finding funding. 341 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:00,180 But here's the thing. 342 00:19:00,180 --> 00:19:02,180 Everybody wants to start with NIH funding. 343 00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:04,100 And NIH funding is awesome. 344 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:09,260 Thank you, government NIH, for giving us federal financial assistance through the form of NIH 345 00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:10,260 grants. 346 00:19:10,260 --> 00:19:12,300 Yes, NIH grants are awesome. 347 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:13,300 And you know what? 348 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,340 The competition for those is kind of stiff. 349 00:19:15,340 --> 00:19:19,420 And if you're just starting out, you're not likely to be competitive for an NIH grant 350 00:19:19,420 --> 00:19:20,880 by yourself. 351 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,100 Maybe collaborating with a PhD scientist, you might be able to be. 352 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:31,220 But starting out, especially if you're applying as the leader of your research program, as 353 00:19:31,220 --> 00:19:34,980 like the PI, you might not be so successful. 354 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:37,980 But you might be more successful looking at foundation grants. 355 00:19:37,980 --> 00:19:41,680 You may be more successful looking at seed grants within your institution. 356 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,580 You may be more successful looking at seed grants from corporations or industry. 357 00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:50,300 There is an opportunity for you. 358 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:51,300 OK. 359 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:56,740 If you are someone who's not been funded yet, I just want you to say after me, there is 360 00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:58,380 an opportunity for me. 361 00:19:58,380 --> 00:19:59,380 Oh, you know what? 362 00:19:59,380 --> 00:20:02,640 Even if you have been funded, you're probably looking for more funding. 363 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,160 Say after me. 364 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,220 There is an opportunity for me. 365 00:20:07,220 --> 00:20:08,220 Great. 366 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:09,220 Great. 367 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:14,720 It's important for you to recognize that there are people waiting to fund you. 368 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,600 It may not be NIH just yet, but there are people waiting to fund you. 369 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,020 Don't look at the people who are not letting you in. 370 00:20:22,020 --> 00:20:25,820 Look around for the people who are letting you in. 371 00:20:25,820 --> 00:20:27,500 Connect to resources. 372 00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:30,300 And resources are not just funders. 373 00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:33,240 Resources are medical students looking for a project. 374 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,000 Resources are residents who want to publish. 375 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,680 Resources are fellows who are looking for opportunities. 376 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,100 Look around and see what you already have. 377 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:44,880 Do not close your eyes saying, I have nothing. 378 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,540 And then literally people around you waiting for opportunity. 379 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:49,780 Connect to resources. 380 00:20:49,780 --> 00:20:51,700 They are all around you. 381 00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:57,140 The final thing I want to share with you is the need to connect with community. 382 00:20:57,140 --> 00:21:01,640 If you're a clinician looking to transition to become a research scientist, you are a 383 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,660 minority of folk. 384 00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:04,660 Right? 385 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,800 You're in the minority. 386 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,960 And there are not many people around you that want to do the same unless you are intentional 387 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,120 about finding that community. 388 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,700 I want to invite you to find community, to reach out to people who are thinking like 389 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:22,400 you, trying to do what you're doing. 390 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,400 Find community. 391 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,820 When I am talking about community, I'm not just talking about mentors. 392 00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:27,940 Oh, yes. 393 00:21:27,940 --> 00:21:30,480 Mentors are everywhere and they're so hard to talk to. 394 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,140 They're so busy. 395 00:21:32,140 --> 00:21:34,460 And I thank God for all my mentors. 396 00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:36,700 Mentors, I appreciate you very much. 397 00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,520 I'm a mentor. 398 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,140 You know, there's just a lot going on. 399 00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:46,080 And the mentors don't think like you do anymore because they're past a lot of things. 400 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,620 They don't even remember the things they used to not know. 401 00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:49,620 Right? 402 00:21:49,620 --> 00:21:50,620 It's the way it is. 403 00:21:50,620 --> 00:21:54,860 But there's a group of peers who's trying to do what you're doing. 404 00:21:54,860 --> 00:22:00,140 There's a group of people across the country, across the world even, who are trying to move 405 00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,500 in the same direction that you're moving in. 406 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:06,500 You got to get in community with them because there will be some people in that community 407 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:09,620 who are a little bit ahead of you and will inspire you to more. 408 00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:14,940 There'll be people who are not as far as you and you'll be able to inspire them to more. 409 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:19,340 There'll be people who are right about where you are and you'll be able to encourage each 410 00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:20,340 other. 411 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:21,340 It'll be so awesome. 412 00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,020 But you do have to find community. 413 00:22:24,020 --> 00:22:27,620 And most of the time, if you're going to find a community of clinicians trying to make the 414 00:22:27,620 --> 00:22:32,500 transition to lead research programs, you got to leave your regular environment, your 415 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:35,220 regular habitat and go find them. 416 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:36,540 They're there. 417 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:37,540 We are here. 418 00:22:37,540 --> 00:22:39,340 And we exist. 419 00:22:39,340 --> 00:22:43,380 And we're in hiding because you got to move away from people who are not doing what you're 420 00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:47,860 doing so you can get the encouragement you need to succeed in the way you want to succeed. 421 00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:49,980 And I invite you to join community. 422 00:22:49,980 --> 00:22:57,220 I invite you to join my community even as I am launching the next coaching series. 423 00:22:57,220 --> 00:23:03,060 And so we're starting our next coaching session with our first webinar. 424 00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:04,820 So we have a webinar coming up. 425 00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:08,620 It's happening on November 20th at 6 p.m. Eastern time. 426 00:23:08,620 --> 00:23:14,380 I want you to check out our research podcast, our podcast website. 427 00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:17,060 That's ClinicianResearcherPodcast.com. 428 00:23:17,060 --> 00:23:23,100 You can also check out our website, Coedcoach.com, for more information about the upcoming webinar. 429 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,780 But I do want you to come and find out. 430 00:23:25,780 --> 00:23:30,700 I'm going to talk about five ways to make the transition from clinician to researcher. 431 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:35,020 I'll be talking a lot about what I've talked about today, but in a lot more detail and 432 00:23:35,020 --> 00:23:39,900 giving you insight about how you too, if you are looking to make the same transition, can 433 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:40,900 transition. 434 00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:41,900 All right. 435 00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:43,380 So I want you to please share this episode. 436 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,580 Somebody else needs to hear that they can. 437 00:23:45,580 --> 00:23:48,060 Somebody else needs to hear that it's possible. 438 00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:51,120 Somebody else needs to hear that it's not crazy. 439 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,060 You absolutely can do this. 440 00:23:53,060 --> 00:23:58,100 And I just want to encourage you to make the transition and to find the community that 441 00:23:58,100 --> 00:23:59,100 helps you do that. 442 00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:00,100 All right. 443 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,420 It has been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. 444 00:24:02,420 --> 00:24:04,340 Thank you for taking the time to listen. 445 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:15,940 I look forward to talking with you again the next time. 446 00:24:15,940 --> 00:24:21,300 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic 447 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:26,780 clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they 448 00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:28,100 have a mentor. 449 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:34,220 If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. 450 00:24:34,220 --> 00:24:35,980 Someone else needs to hear it. 451 00:24:35,980 --> 00:24:40,020 So take a minute right now and share it. 452 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:45,480 As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation 453 00:24:45,480 --> 00:25:05,260 of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.