Sept. 20, 2023
It is never too late to start your research career
If you are thinking it is too late to start your research career, think again. For clinicians looking to start a research program, today is the day to begin. In this episode, we explore the essential steps for clinicians looking to make the transition into research. Key Points Discussed:
- Own Your Strengths: The importance of recognizing and leveraging clinical expertise as a foundational element for a successful research program.
- Evaluate Your Needs: Think critically about what you have and the resources and support required to start.
- Push for Protected Time: Allocate dedicated time to research. Develop strategies to optimize your clinical workload.
- Assemble Your Team: Build a team to support your research.
- Find Seed Funding: Even if it's a modest amount, explore opportunities for obtaining initial funding..
- Be Patient: Building a research program is a gradual process. It doesn't help to compare your progress to others.
- Get the Help You Need: To facilitate your research journey, seek mentors, collaborators, and resources
- Academics Negotiate: A valuable resource for negotiating support and resources for your research journey.
- Clinician Researcher Podcast: Access more insights and guidance on clinician research through this podcast.
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Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
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to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
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As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
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When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
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that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
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program.
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Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
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However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
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For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
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the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
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Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
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Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.
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I am excited to be with you today.
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I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and today I'm talking about the fact that it's never too
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late to build a research program.
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It's just never too late.
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And I am excited to announce that for everyone, everyone who's building a research program,
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no matter how late a start you're getting, Academics Negotiate is the program for you.
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And I encourage you to check it out on our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
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Check out when we're enrolling the next cohort of Academics Negotiate so that you can be
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a part of that cohort and you can get help negotiating your career so that you can build
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the research program that has maximum impact and allows you to thrive as a clinician researcher.
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So I invite you to check it out and sign up for our wait list.
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Okay, today I am talking about building a research program.
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It's never too late.
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It's just never too late.
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So when I came to the game as far as research is concerned, people thought it was too late
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for me.
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And when was I coming?
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I was an early career faculty.
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I was just starting my first job.
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And I was interviewing and saying I wanted to have a research career.
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And the questions I was being asked, at least by the people who took me seriously, like
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most people were like, oh, you don't, you're a clinician.
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That's all you want to do.
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Go do research on the side if you want to.
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But when I first got to a program that actually was like, okay, we take that seriously.
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We have clinician researchers here.
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Tell me about your qualifications.
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Tell me how many grants you submitted.
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Actually, they didn't ask me how many grants I'd submitted.
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They asked me how many grants I had.
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And I was like, well, I don't have any.
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Am I supposed to have them?
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Oh, oh, too late for you.
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Okay, okay.
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Tell us about how many publications you've had.
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I was like, well, I have four.
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And I was feeling really good about my four.
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And I was like, you don't even really have many publications.
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But what?
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What?
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And so there was just this sense that I was late.
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That if I had used my fellowship time wisely, I would have had more publications by now.
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I would have had some grant funding.
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And the fact that I'd missed out meant that I couldn't really come in in a research position.
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That I could come in a clinical position and then good luck with making the research happen.
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And this happens to so many of us where we have a heavy clinical focus during our fellowship
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time and we miss opportunities to create research products.
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But it doesn't mean it's too late for us.
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It just means we need to think strategically and we need to think differently.
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Okay.
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So I'm going to talk to you today about how to build a research program starting where
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you are.
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And I want to encourage you that I am talking to you.
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You may be like, well, but I've been in clinical medicine for 25 years.
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What do you mean?
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It's not too late.
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All I have ever done is clinical.
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It doesn't matter.
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If you have a desire to build a research program, then this message is for you.
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Because where you are is the most important place that you can start.
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Not yesterday, not tomorrow, but right now, today, where you are.
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I'm going to share with you seven insights about how to build a research program from
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exactly where you are.
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The first thing you need to do is to own your strengths.
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Yes, you have not done research or research training for the last maybe 10 years of your
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career or maybe you are like me at the beginning of your academic faculty experience and you
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didn't have the receipts that people were expecting you to have from your fellowship.
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What do you have?
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Don't start with what you don't have.
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Start with what you do have.
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What do you have?
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If you are a beginning academic, a beginning faculty member, you have your clinical expertise.
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And although that is not research expertise, please do not be confused.
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Clinical expertise is not research expertise.
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But you do have clinical expertise.
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And that has value.
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Because if you're going to build a research program starting from where you are, you start
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in the place of your clinical expertise.
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People are going to say, well, but your clinical expertise doesn't get funded.
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Do not buy the lie.
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Do not believe it.
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Because the kind of person who can make that area of clinical expertise get funding is
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you because you understand the area.
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And so your clinical expertise must always be your starting point.
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Perhaps you look around and you're like, well, I'm a hematologist and the only person I see
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around me is a cardiologist.
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I guess I have to do cardiology research.
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Don't do it.
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Do not do it.
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Your strength is your strength is your strength is your strength.
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It's like asking a bird to run a marathon.
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OK, with enough practice and training, any bird can run a marathon.
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But will the bird still be alive at the end of the marathon is an important question.
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And perhaps the bird is alive at the end of the marathon.
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Is that the bird's greatest strength?
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Is that the bird's greatest strength?
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The bird's greatest strength isn't flying.
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And yeah, a bird can run a marathon.
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But really, if you want to see a bird do well, you ask the bird to fly.
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You are like that bird in the area of your clinical expertise.
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If you are going to fly in the place of research, it's got to be in your area of expertise.
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It doesn't matter how many non-experts there are around you.
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Or it doesn't matter that you don't have a mentor specifically in your area of clinical
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expertise.
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The fact that you have clinical expertise is an area of strength and you've got to
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recognize that.
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And don't let anybody take you out of a place where you have strength.
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Think about how you're going to bring them in to facilitate your area of strength.
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But don't give up your area of strength just for the promise of a future that you don't
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have any control over.
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Okay.
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Own the strength that you already have.
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Your clinical expertise is number one.
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Number two is your experience.
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So if you're coming to this, maybe a few years after you started and you've been in clinical
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for a while and you're like, you know what?
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I really do want to do research.
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Own your experience.
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And your experience is really important because not only do you have clinical expertise, you
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now have experience.
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It's one thing to understand theory.
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It's another thing to say, I've treated 7,000 patients with this condition now.
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I have a good understanding of what's going on with these patients.
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And the reason your clinical expertise is, I mean, your clinical experience is helpful
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is because you know where the gaps are.
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The longer you've been doing this, the more the gaps bug you, the more the gaps bother
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you, the more dissatisfied you are with the status quo.
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Because you're like, I have these patients and these medications are not helping them
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and these changes they're making are not helping them.
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It's not advancing them far enough.
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You have the experience to understand where the pain points are in your patient population.
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So you not only have clinical expertise, you have the experience.
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So when it comes to deciding what research questions should be asked of this population,
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you are gold.
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You know, because you understand what really matters.
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And so if you're going to start from where you are, the first thing you have to do is
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to own your strengths.
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Don't let anybody take you outside of the place where you're strong.
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Own what you already have.
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Don't focus on what you don't have because you're going to go get that.
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You're going to go get someone who has it.
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But own what you already have because only when you understand value can you negotiate
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value.
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Okay, own your strengths.
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That's number one.
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Number two is to evaluate your need.
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Okay, you want to get into research.
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What do you need?
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And in order to understand what you need, you got to figure out where you want to go.
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Where do you want to go?
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You know, sometimes when clinicians say I want to do research, they don't understand
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what it takes to do research.
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And so there's this sense that I can just do research on the fly.
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But research is a full-time career.
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Remember, there are people who went to school just to do research.
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And they went to school not for one, two, three, four, but five, six, seven years.
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And some people went for longer periods of training just to do research.
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So research is not a side job that you just do in the middle of the night when you're
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like, oh, I have a couple of extra hours.
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And a lot of clinicians do that.
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But to be honest, it's hard to make impact that way.
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Research is a full-time job.
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So if you are a full-time clinician trying to do a full-time research job, what do you
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need to make it work?
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How do you offload some of your full-time clinician jobs so that you can do some of
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your full-time research job?
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Or how do you leverage the opportunities that other people can give you so that they're
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working on your full-time research job while you're working on your full-time clinician
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job?
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What do you need?
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And some people say, well, I don't want to give up any clinical.
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It's OK.
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You don't have to give it up.
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But who's going to be doing the full-time work for you while you're not giving up your
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full-time job as a clinician?
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Who's going to be doing the full-time research?
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You've got to figure that out.
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Ideally, you want to do at least some of it, even if not all.
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And so how much of your full-time clinical job are you going to give up so that you can
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do some of your full-time research job?
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What do you need?
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You've got to evaluate your need.
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And no one evaluates that need for you.
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You do.
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Because here's the thing.
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Sometimes there's a sense that our institutions need to support us better.
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And sometimes I hear that, and I'm like, well, what does that mean?
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What does support us better mean?
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Because what I need is different from what you need.
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There is not a blanket support system.
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Because the support system that's blanket is for a majority that's probably not you.
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And it's for a weird majority, right?
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Because you take the average of everybody.
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You can't make a good human with the average of all the people.
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Sometimes we're different in different ways.
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Some of us have longer arms.
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Some of us have shorter legs.
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Some of us have a bigger head.
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You can't just take the average of every measurement and say, this is the human I'm creating this
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resource for.
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Because different people need different things.
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And there is no greater person to help you figure out what you need than you.
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And you may struggle with what that need looks like.
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Go figure out what other people are doing so other people who are succeeding as clinician
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researchers, what do they have?
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This is not so you can be covetous or so you can be like, I can't believe they have that.
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But it's just to get a sense of, I like what that person has.
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Because this is how it could meet my need.
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I don't care for what that person has.
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So looking at people is not to compare yourself to them so you can feel bad or feel superior.
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Either one is a problem.
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But it's looking at them, people who are already succeeding in that way, to say, I like what
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that person has because it will help me do X.
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So evaluate your need and get help doing it if you can't do it by yourself.
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Hello?
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You can reach out to me.
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Okay.
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Number three is you've got to push for protective time.
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Okay.
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Research is a full time job.
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Say after me, research is a full time job.
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I do know that there are people who are doing two jobs.
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If you're a clinician researcher, you are doing two jobs.
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You're doing a full time clinical job and a full time research job.
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And you're like, wait a minute, I only have one job.
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You do.
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But you're doing two full time jobs.
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And if you're going to do it well, you're going to either be the one doing the full
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time job or you're going to hire people to do the full time job for you.
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And research is like entrepreneurship.
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You're building a program and you're leveraging the power of other people to move the program
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forward for you.
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That is really what you're doing.
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You're growing to be the leader of the enterprise.
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And over time, you can step away from the enterprise while your people just keep your
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work going.
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And initially and in the beginning, your time is needed to really move the work forward.
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It is possible to start if you already have a team in place to move you forward.
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Right.
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You already have a team that's going to take you, your work and move it forward.
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And then you can start part time.
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But if you're really going to start, you've got to really put in a chunk of time into
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it.
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And I know this is a place at which I feel like I'm losing people.
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They're like, well, I can't do it.
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I have a full time clinical job.
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I can't do it.
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Yes, you can.
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The question is not can you or can't you.
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The question is how can you?
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How can you push for protected time?
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What will it take?
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OK, you're 100% clinician today or maybe you're 80% clinician today.
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How can you shrink some of your clinical footprint so that in your 80% job, you find 20% of that
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time for research?
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How can you do it?
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How can your unruly Monday clinic be tamed?
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And you're like, oh, no, no, no.
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The Monday clinic is awful.
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It can never be tamed.
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How can it happen?
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What kind of support do you need in the clinic so that it frees you up to do the other full
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time job?
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What kind of support do you need?
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Are you making all your own appointments?
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What kind of support can you negotiate for so that you're not spending time calling your
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own appointments?
280
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Are you doing your own prior authorizations?
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What kind of support can you negotiate for so you're not spending time listening to music
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on the phone?
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And what you start to do is you start to build just a little seed of protected time for yourself
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because the first person who's going to gift you protected time is you.
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And then you can go asking for more.
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You're like, this is the space of protected time I've created.
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This is what that space has created for me in the realm of research.
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And then you take that as evidence to go ask for more protected time.
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But you've got to push for protected time.
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First, nobody is going to push for protected time like you are because the reason you're
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pushing is because you're going to make it time that's productive.
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And that allows people to really advocate for you.
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OK, push for protected time.
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Number four, assemble your team.
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OK, you're not going to do this by yourself.
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Nobody ever does research by themselves.
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They don't, right?
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We build on the work that other people have done.
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And we have people help us move our work forward.
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Anybody who can do research by themselves is not doing research that's going to make
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any kind of impact.
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I mean, it's just the reality.
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If you can do your research in a broom closet by yourself in the corner of your house, it'll
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be great research, I'm sure.
305
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,760
But it's probably not going to impact very many people.
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OK, so if you are going to really make impact, and I know that the reason you came to research
307
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was not just so you could say I pipetted a couple of samples.
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It's because you want to lead a question.
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You want to answer a question that's important to you, that's important to your patients.
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For that reason, you're going to need a team.
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What will it take?
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OK, you're like, well, I don't have funding for a team.
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I guess I can't do it.
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No.
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Who do you already have?
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00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,720
If you're a clinician researcher, there are three teams that you need.
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Number one, you need your home team.
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OK, some of you are lucky and you have a partner that just takes care of the home front.
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Good for you.
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And some of you are lucky and you don't have a partner that takes care of the home front.
321
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Either way, you're lucky.
322
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,560
You're lucky that you have opportunities to create a team that helps you take care of
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the home front.
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What are the things you need?
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00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,000
You need your groceries done.
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You need your shopping done.
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You need your laundry done.
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What do you need?
329
00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:10,520
And who's the team that's supporting you to do that?
330
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Oh, I see some people rolling their eyes.
331
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:13,920
I'm like, I don't have a team.
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Well, what an opportunity.
333
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,920
What an opportunity for you to create a team.
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00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,840
And no, it doesn't mean you have to pay a concierge person to like run around your house
335
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,440
doing groceries and in your shopping and cleaning up after you.
336
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,840
But if you can't afford that, you should go for it.
337
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:33,840
But who is your team?
338
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,780
I'll tell you some of my team.
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00:17:35,780 --> 00:17:38,760
My team is Amazon, Amazon Prime.
340
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,880
My team consists of Walmart, you know, where you pick up your groceries at the door.
341
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,160
My team also consists of Food Lion.
342
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,520
And I have other team members.
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I can't remember them all right now.
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But who are the people who make life easy for you and it doesn't have to be a discrete
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person.
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It could just be a company and the services they provide that offload you.
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00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,480
Yes, they're part of your home team.
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You want to make sure you assemble them so that they resource you.
349
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And you're not spending time doing things that other people can do for you.
350
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Okay, that's your home team.
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00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,120
And then what about your clinical team?
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00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,120
Okay.
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00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:22,200
If you are still rooming your own patients, then that's a problem.
354
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,360
It's a problem for you and it's a problem for your institution because I tell you that
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the clinicians highest value to the institution is not in rooming patients.
356
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It's just not.
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00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:37,320
And if you're doing it, it's a sign that you need support.
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00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:42,800
And anything you're doing in the clinical space, you should be maximized and resourced
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00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,480
to bring in the most clinical revenue for the work you do in the time that you're in
360
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:47,480
the clinic.
361
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,400
Now, if you're a clinician researcher, clinical revenue may not be the most important to you,
362
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,000
but as long as you're in the clinic seeing patients, well, you better maximize that time.
363
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,880
Don't just be in the clinic seeing patients and spending all the time on the phone.
364
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000
You could be doing something else with that time, right?
365
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,080
And so how do you maximize the resources you have to create maximum clinical value?
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00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,320
Ask for those resources.
367
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:10,840
Do you need an MA to support you?
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00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,760
They're like, well, you're only in clinic a half a day a week.
369
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,480
Well, that's half a day of clinical revenue that I want to generate well.
370
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,460
And so yes, I need an MA.
371
00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:24,160
And if I can't see three patients because I'm spending the whole day rooming patients,
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that's a problem.
373
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Help people see the value.
374
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720
They can't see it.
375
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760
You show them.
376
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,920
Don't say, oh, I'm just in clinic for half a day.
377
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:33,920
It's not that important.
378
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920
I'll just know.
379
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,060
Make it count.
380
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:46,360
And if you can be so efficient as to squeeze five hours worth of patients into three, guess
381
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,560
what you could do with the other two, right?
382
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,720
Assemble your team in the clinic.
383
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,720
Don't schedule your own patients.
384
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040
Don't schedule your own appointments.
385
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Don't.
386
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,720
And in fact, if you can get an opportunity for somebody else to close your charts for
387
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,720
you to write your note, do it.
388
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240
Like, oh, I don't want to scribe because it might mean I have to see three more patients.
389
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280
You need to figure out the math.
390
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,200
How much does it cost for the three patients that you cannot add to the schedule?
391
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,360
How much would it bring?
392
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,680
How much revenue would it bring?
393
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,740
And how much would it cost for a scribe to come and see those and help you see those
394
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:25,440
three patients and close all your charts on time?
395
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,400
And I know everyone's having different conversations about whether scribes are not scribes.
396
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,760
It doesn't have to be a scribe.
397
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,520
What helps you be efficient in the clinic?
398
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,400
Assemble the team.
399
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,400
Negotiate the team.
400
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,400
They may already exist.
401
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,580
You're already working with them.
402
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:40,620
How do you make the most out of them?
403
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:44,840
Some of you are so disenchanted with your MAs, you don't even allow them to work for
404
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,840
you.
405
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,900
You keep doing their work.
406
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:51,800
How can they grow and expand if you keep doing the work of your MA?
407
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,520
How can you coach your MA to help you be better?
408
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,440
Or how can you negotiate for a different MA?
409
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,820
Assemble your team.
410
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:04,600
If you're a scientist, the science part of you needs a team.
411
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,240
Please, don't be the person who's proposing the research, who's writing the research
412
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,200
grants, who's submitting the research grants and doing the revision, and also be the one
413
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,040
who's generating all the data and analyzing all the data and doing your own biostatistics
414
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,160
and writing your own first draft.
415
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,640
Don't be that person because you know what?
416
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,240
You can't do it all well.
417
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,760
You're the leader of a research program.
418
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,200
You should have a team to support you.
419
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,280
Okay, you may not have the finances yet, but oh my goodness, there are all these medical
420
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880
students and residents looking for a job.
421
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,800
They're like wanting to succeed in research.
422
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,800
And there you are with all this clinical expertise and experience.
423
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,480
Assemble them as part of your team.
424
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,480
Give them work to do.
425
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,920
You're like, oh, it's too hard.
426
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,400
It's too hard to train them.
427
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,400
Okay?
428
00:21:50,400 --> 00:22:00,880
What you're going to do is recognize that anybody who is in the medical space, medical
429
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,680
students, residents, are high achieving people.
430
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,920
They can learn things fast.
431
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,880
You only have to teach them once or twice and then they can run.
432
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,320
As long as you can align what they need with what you need, they need a paper, a first
433
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,480
author paper.
434
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,480
You're looking to lead a research program, make it worth their while.
435
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,520
Give it to them, help them run with it.
436
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,520
Assemble your team.
437
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,820
Okay, number five, find seed funding.
438
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:26,000
You need money for this team.
439
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760
Okay, you can get a volunteer team.
440
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,380
Absolutely you can.
441
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:33,100
If you're leading a clinical research program, you can get the medical student who's available
442
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:39,040
for maybe summers or you can get the resident who is going to on their own time do research
443
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,200
with you.
444
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
You might get the fellow who says you're the best person ever.
445
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,420
I want to work with you.
446
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:49,720
But you are actually needing people that are paid to do your work.
447
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,720
You do.
448
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,880
You need the people who are like you give me a paycheck, I do your work.
449
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,440
So you got to find seed funding.
450
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:57,440
You do.
451
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320
And all you need is a little bit of funding to start.
452
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,320
That's it.
453
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,320
Just a little bit.
454
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,440
And the best place to look for that usually is at your institution.
455
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,440
There are all these seed funding things that they're talking about because they want clinicians
456
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,120
to be involved in research.
457
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,720
Or maybe it's your society, right?
458
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,280
There are all these things that your society is recommending, you know, touting as like
459
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,200
oh please apply for these funds.
460
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,960
Just get a little bit.
461
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,160
Because the seed, seed is all that's needed.
462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,560
And the moment the seed is planted in the ground, look at what it creates.
463
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,720
A forest of trees.
464
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,880
Just a couple of seeds.
465
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,360
A forest of trees.
466
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,640
One seed, multiple fruit.
467
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Because the moment you get just a little bit of funding, someone has voted with cash to
468
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,960
give you money to do something.
469
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Then you're going to expand it.
470
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,800
And how are you going to expand it?
471
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,400
You're going to water it, you're going to make it grow.
472
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,960
You're going to make that seed birth something, right?
473
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,960
You're going to produce from it.
474
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240
And then you're going to say look at what this seed did.
475
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,680
And somebody else is going to be like what?
476
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:58,680
Look at what that seed did.
477
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,960
And if they don't, you're going to show them.
478
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,000
You're going to say hey, look at what this seed did.
479
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,360
You want to put more where this seed went?
480
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,360
You want to supply more?
481
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,360
Right?
482
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,320
You're going to use what you've created through the seed funding that you have to advocate
483
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,320
for more.
484
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,520
It always starts with a seed.
485
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,040
It doesn't start with a big grant.
486
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,480
It always starts with a small grant.
487
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,320
And the small grant leads to the next grant leads to the next grant.
488
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,560
And in life, people are biased.
489
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,380
Bias towards the person who can get funding.
490
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:27,960
And so if you've gotten any funding, even the slightest bit of funding, you've already
491
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,400
voted for yourself as someone who can get more funding.
492
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,200
So just go off and find the first seed.
493
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000
It doesn't have to be a big seed.
494
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,480
It does need to be a small seed.
495
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,480
A seed.
496
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,400
It's just got to be a seed.
497
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,840
And so you create that seed.
498
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Use it.
499
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,280
You find the seed.
500
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,280
You plant it.
501
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,400
You grow something.
502
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,400
You produce.
503
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,920
You show everybody what you've produced.
504
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,960
And then you can use that to now grow more funding for your program.
505
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,200
Because your ultimate goal is to be the leader of the program, not the one working in it.
506
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,800
And have people to help you work in it.
507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,800
All right.
508
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,120
Number six is be patient.
509
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,760
Be patient.
510
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,760
Really.
511
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,960
You're just starting.
512
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,240
Don't compare yourself with people who've been doing this for years and years.
513
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Don't compare yourself with people who started, you know, in kindergarten to do research because
514
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,520
their mother was a scientist.
515
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Don't.
516
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Don't compare yourself.
517
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,020
Be patient with yourself.
518
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:22,800
And show yourself compassion.
519
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Show yourself compassion.
520
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,420
The reason you started this research thing late in the game, so to speak, is because
521
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:32,080
you had a desire to see something be solved.
522
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,560
You had a desire to solve a problem.
523
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,520
That problem is still important.
524
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,920
And even when it's slow going, even when it looks like no one's supporting you, be patient
525
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,400
with yourself.
526
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,080
You're going to make amazing things happen.
527
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,680
But good things only come to people who are patient.
528
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,120
So be patient.
529
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,720
Number seven, get the help you need.
530
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,720
This is hard.
531
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,980
If you're going to build a research program, it takes help.
532
00:25:56,980 --> 00:25:57,980
It takes help.
533
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:59,120
Some people have great mentors.
534
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,120
Most people do not.
535
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,840
Can I say that again?
536
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,020
Most people don't have great mentors.
537
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,020
Most people do not.
538
00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:08,880
And just so you don't have a great mentor doesn't mean you're not going to succeed.
539
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,840
But get the help you need.
540
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840
Who do you need?
541
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,840
You're like, well, I can't find a mentor.
542
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:13,840
I guess I quit.
543
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,840
No.
544
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,360
You need more than just a mentor.
545
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:17,680
You need many mentors.
546
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Which mentor are you missing?
547
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,800
Which mentoring category are you missing?
548
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600
OK, maybe you don't have a research mentor.
549
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,280
But if your institution has any researchers in it, then you have options.
550
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,960
Which one is going to be the best for you?
551
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,320
What are they going to give you that you don't already have?
552
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,520
Don't wait for one person to give you everything you need.
553
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,560
Take what they can give you and then go find the next thing from the next person.
554
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,760
Have a cadre of mentors.
555
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,620
And you may not even need a mentor to learn some of the things you need.
556
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:50,440
For example, this podcast says here's a resource for you.
557
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,440
I'm not your mentor, but you can learn a lot from this space.
558
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,560
So get the help you need.
559
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,940
Don't sit back and hope for the best.
560
00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:03,400
Get the help you need.
561
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,200
With these seven things, number one, owning your strength, your clinical expertise, your
562
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,200
experience.
563
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,480
Number two, evaluating your need.
564
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,640
Number three, pushing for protected time.
565
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Number four, assembling your team.
566
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,400
Number five, finding seed funding.
567
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,760
Number six, being patient.
568
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,400
Number seven, getting the help you need.
569
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,000
These are seven things that are important to help you build a research program.
570
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,080
And it's never too late to do that.
571
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,700
One thing I want to add at the end of all of this is that the who matters so much.
572
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,080
You've never done research before, but there are other people who have.
573
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
And so you should seek them out to help you on your journey.
574
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
And you should actually think about partnering with them.
575
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,760
Maybe you're going to be just a clinical expert and they're going to be the research expert.
576
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200
And together you're going to make a dynamite combo.
577
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,720
It is going to be so good.
578
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,000
It is never too late to build a research program.
579
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,760
And I hope that you will believe that and that you will go out this week and start asking,
580
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,680
how can I push for protected time?
581
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,920
What do I need?
582
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,440
I want you to start asking these questions and I want you to take a look at what you
583
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,520
already have, what you already have and what you already have can create.
584
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,560
And then I want you to start pushing for what you need.
585
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,320
Start grabbing what you need.
586
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,360
Start reaching out to people who have what you need.
587
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,680
I want you to believe in your power to make it happen.
588
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,680
All right.
589
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,120
If this episode has been helpful to you, you got to share it.
590
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:39,040
Please choose just one person who wants to do research, but feels like it's too late
591
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,040
for me.
592
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Just one person, please.
593
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240
And share this episode with them.
594
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,240
All right.
595
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,520
It's been a pleasure to talk with you today.
596
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:58,760
I look forward to talking with you again the next time.
597
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,080
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
598
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,560
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
599
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,900
have a mentor.
600
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:17,000
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
601
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,760
No one else needs to hear it.
602
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
So take a minute right now and share it.
603
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,280
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
604
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:48,320
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,860
Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills
2
00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:11,260
to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
3
00:00:11,260 --> 00:00:17,340
As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients.
4
00:00:17,340 --> 00:00:22,380
When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find
5
00:00:22,380 --> 00:00:27,780
that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research
6
00:00:27,780 --> 00:00:29,200
program.
7
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:35,480
Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit.
8
00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:40,580
However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.
9
00:00:40,580 --> 00:00:46,200
For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians
10
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800
the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor.
11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:01,040
Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene.
12
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,680
Welcome to today's episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast.
13
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,600
I am excited to be with you today.
14
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:13,040
I'm your host Toyosi Onwuemene, and today I'm talking about the fact that it's never too
15
00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:15,800
late to build a research program.
16
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,280
It's just never too late.
17
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:25,960
And I am excited to announce that for everyone, everyone who's building a research program,
18
00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:32,340
no matter how late a start you're getting, Academics Negotiate is the program for you.
19
00:01:32,340 --> 00:01:38,200
And I encourage you to check it out on our website, clinicianresearcherpodcast.com.
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00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:43,840
Check out when we're enrolling the next cohort of Academics Negotiate so that you can be
21
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:51,040
a part of that cohort and you can get help negotiating your career so that you can build
22
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:58,240
the research program that has maximum impact and allows you to thrive as a clinician researcher.
23
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:03,360
So I invite you to check it out and sign up for our wait list.
24
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:09,020
Okay, today I am talking about building a research program.
25
00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:10,520
It's never too late.
26
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,000
It's just never too late.
27
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:21,160
So when I came to the game as far as research is concerned, people thought it was too late
28
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,160
for me.
29
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,160
And when was I coming?
30
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,360
I was an early career faculty.
31
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,480
I was just starting my first job.
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00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,600
And I was interviewing and saying I wanted to have a research career.
33
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,400
And the questions I was being asked, at least by the people who took me seriously, like
34
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,880
most people were like, oh, you don't, you're a clinician.
35
00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:39,880
That's all you want to do.
36
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,480
Go do research on the side if you want to.
37
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,240
But when I first got to a program that actually was like, okay, we take that seriously.
38
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,720
We have clinician researchers here.
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00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,560
Tell me about your qualifications.
40
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,160
Tell me how many grants you submitted.
41
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,160
Actually, they didn't ask me how many grants I'd submitted.
42
00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,160
They asked me how many grants I had.
43
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:00,160
And I was like, well, I don't have any.
44
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,800
Am I supposed to have them?
45
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:03,600
Oh, oh, too late for you.
46
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:04,600
Okay, okay.
47
00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,320
Tell us about how many publications you've had.
48
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,040
I was like, well, I have four.
49
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,600
And I was feeling really good about my four.
50
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,240
And I was like, you don't even really have many publications.
51
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,240
But what?
52
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,240
What?
53
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,640
And so there was just this sense that I was late.
54
00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:28,440
That if I had used my fellowship time wisely, I would have had more publications by now.
55
00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,400
I would have had some grant funding.
56
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:36,040
And the fact that I'd missed out meant that I couldn't really come in in a research position.
57
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,800
That I could come in a clinical position and then good luck with making the research happen.
58
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:46,760
And this happens to so many of us where we have a heavy clinical focus during our fellowship
59
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,760
time and we miss opportunities to create research products.
60
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,240
But it doesn't mean it's too late for us.
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00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,320
It just means we need to think strategically and we need to think differently.
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00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,320
Okay.
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00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,120
So I'm going to talk to you today about how to build a research program starting where
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00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,120
you are.
65
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,000
And I want to encourage you that I am talking to you.
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00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,200
You may be like, well, but I've been in clinical medicine for 25 years.
67
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:13,200
What do you mean?
68
00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,200
It's not too late.
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00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,040
All I have ever done is clinical.
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00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,400
It doesn't matter.
71
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:23,080
If you have a desire to build a research program, then this message is for you.
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00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,280
Because where you are is the most important place that you can start.
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00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:32,280
Not yesterday, not tomorrow, but right now, today, where you are.
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00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:38,000
I'm going to share with you seven insights about how to build a research program from
75
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,880
exactly where you are.
76
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,520
The first thing you need to do is to own your strengths.
77
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:49,200
Yes, you have not done research or research training for the last maybe 10 years of your
78
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:57,400
career or maybe you are like me at the beginning of your academic faculty experience and you
79
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:03,360
didn't have the receipts that people were expecting you to have from your fellowship.
80
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:04,960
What do you have?
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00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:06,780
Don't start with what you don't have.
82
00:05:06,780 --> 00:05:08,400
Start with what you do have.
83
00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,120
What do you have?
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00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:17,080
If you are a beginning academic, a beginning faculty member, you have your clinical expertise.
85
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:21,020
And although that is not research expertise, please do not be confused.
86
00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:24,280
Clinical expertise is not research expertise.
87
00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:26,520
But you do have clinical expertise.
88
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,680
And that has value.
89
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:34,200
Because if you're going to build a research program starting from where you are, you start
90
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,960
in the place of your clinical expertise.
91
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:45,080
People are going to say, well, but your clinical expertise doesn't get funded.
92
00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:46,840
Do not buy the lie.
93
00:05:46,840 --> 00:05:48,720
Do not believe it.
94
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,200
Because the kind of person who can make that area of clinical expertise get funding is
95
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,160
you because you understand the area.
96
00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,240
And so your clinical expertise must always be your starting point.
97
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,960
Perhaps you look around and you're like, well, I'm a hematologist and the only person I see
98
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,320
around me is a cardiologist.
99
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,600
I guess I have to do cardiology research.
100
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,360
Don't do it.
101
00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,320
Do not do it.
102
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,520
Your strength is your strength is your strength is your strength.
103
00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,920
It's like asking a bird to run a marathon.
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00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,900
OK, with enough practice and training, any bird can run a marathon.
105
00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:30,640
But will the bird still be alive at the end of the marathon is an important question.
106
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,080
And perhaps the bird is alive at the end of the marathon.
107
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,360
Is that the bird's greatest strength?
108
00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,600
Is that the bird's greatest strength?
109
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,720
The bird's greatest strength isn't flying.
110
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,360
And yeah, a bird can run a marathon.
111
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:49,920
But really, if you want to see a bird do well, you ask the bird to fly.
112
00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,920
You are like that bird in the area of your clinical expertise.
113
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,200
If you are going to fly in the place of research, it's got to be in your area of expertise.
114
00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,440
It doesn't matter how many non-experts there are around you.
115
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,520
Or it doesn't matter that you don't have a mentor specifically in your area of clinical
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00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,760
expertise.
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00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,080
The fact that you have clinical expertise is an area of strength and you've got to
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00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,760
recognize that.
119
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:15,640
And don't let anybody take you out of a place where you have strength.
120
00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:20,320
Think about how you're going to bring them in to facilitate your area of strength.
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00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:25,280
But don't give up your area of strength just for the promise of a future that you don't
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00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,920
have any control over.
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00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:27,920
Okay.
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00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:29,840
Own the strength that you already have.
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00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,720
Your clinical expertise is number one.
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00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,480
Number two is your experience.
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So if you're coming to this, maybe a few years after you started and you've been in clinical
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for a while and you're like, you know what?
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I really do want to do research.
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Own your experience.
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And your experience is really important because not only do you have clinical expertise, you
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now have experience.
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It's one thing to understand theory.
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It's another thing to say, I've treated 7,000 patients with this condition now.
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I have a good understanding of what's going on with these patients.
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And the reason your clinical expertise is, I mean, your clinical experience is helpful
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is because you know where the gaps are.
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The longer you've been doing this, the more the gaps bug you, the more the gaps bother
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you, the more dissatisfied you are with the status quo.
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Because you're like, I have these patients and these medications are not helping them
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and these changes they're making are not helping them.
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It's not advancing them far enough.
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You have the experience to understand where the pain points are in your patient population.
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So you not only have clinical expertise, you have the experience.
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So when it comes to deciding what research questions should be asked of this population,
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you are gold.
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You know, because you understand what really matters.
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And so if you're going to start from where you are, the first thing you have to do is
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to own your strengths.
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Don't let anybody take you outside of the place where you're strong.
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Own what you already have.
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Don't focus on what you don't have because you're going to go get that.
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You're going to go get someone who has it.
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But own what you already have because only when you understand value can you negotiate
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value.
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Okay, own your strengths.
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That's number one.
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Number two is to evaluate your need.
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Okay, you want to get into research.
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What do you need?
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And in order to understand what you need, you got to figure out where you want to go.
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Where do you want to go?
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You know, sometimes when clinicians say I want to do research, they don't understand
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what it takes to do research.
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And so there's this sense that I can just do research on the fly.
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But research is a full-time career.
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Remember, there are people who went to school just to do research.
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And they went to school not for one, two, three, four, but five, six, seven years.
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And some people went for longer periods of training just to do research.
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So research is not a side job that you just do in the middle of the night when you're
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like, oh, I have a couple of extra hours.
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And a lot of clinicians do that.
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But to be honest, it's hard to make impact that way.
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Research is a full-time job.
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So if you are a full-time clinician trying to do a full-time research job, what do you
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need to make it work?
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How do you offload some of your full-time clinician jobs so that you can do some of
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your full-time research job?
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Or how do you leverage the opportunities that other people can give you so that they're
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working on your full-time research job while you're working on your full-time clinician
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job?
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What do you need?
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And some people say, well, I don't want to give up any clinical.
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It's OK.
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You don't have to give it up.
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But who's going to be doing the full-time work for you while you're not giving up your
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full-time job as a clinician?
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Who's going to be doing the full-time research?
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You've got to figure that out.
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Ideally, you want to do at least some of it, even if not all.
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And so how much of your full-time clinical job are you going to give up so that you can
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do some of your full-time research job?
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What do you need?
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You've got to evaluate your need.
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And no one evaluates that need for you.
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You do.
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Because here's the thing.
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Sometimes there's a sense that our institutions need to support us better.
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And sometimes I hear that, and I'm like, well, what does that mean?
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What does support us better mean?
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Because what I need is different from what you need.
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There is not a blanket support system.
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Because the support system that's blanket is for a majority that's probably not you.
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And it's for a weird majority, right?
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Because you take the average of everybody.
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You can't make a good human with the average of all the people.
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Sometimes we're different in different ways.
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Some of us have longer arms.
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Some of us have shorter legs.
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Some of us have a bigger head.
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You can't just take the average of every measurement and say, this is the human I'm creating this
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resource for.
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Because different people need different things.
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And there is no greater person to help you figure out what you need than you.
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And you may struggle with what that need looks like.
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Go figure out what other people are doing so other people who are succeeding as clinician
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researchers, what do they have?
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This is not so you can be covetous or so you can be like, I can't believe they have that.
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But it's just to get a sense of, I like what that person has.
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Because this is how it could meet my need.
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I don't care for what that person has.
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So looking at people is not to compare yourself to them so you can feel bad or feel superior.
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Either one is a problem.
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But it's looking at them, people who are already succeeding in that way, to say, I like what
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that person has because it will help me do X.
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So evaluate your need and get help doing it if you can't do it by yourself.
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Hello?
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You can reach out to me.
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Okay.
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Number three is you've got to push for protective time.
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Okay.
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Research is a full time job.
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Say after me, research is a full time job.
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I do know that there are people who are doing two jobs.
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If you're a clinician researcher, you are doing two jobs.
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You're doing a full time clinical job and a full time research job.
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And you're like, wait a minute, I only have one job.
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You do.
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But you're doing two full time jobs.
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And if you're going to do it well, you're going to either be the one doing the full
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time job or you're going to hire people to do the full time job for you.
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And research is like entrepreneurship.
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You're building a program and you're leveraging the power of other people to move the program
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forward for you.
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That is really what you're doing.
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You're growing to be the leader of the enterprise.
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And over time, you can step away from the enterprise while your people just keep your
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work going.
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And initially and in the beginning, your time is needed to really move the work forward.
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It is possible to start if you already have a team in place to move you forward.
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Right.
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You already have a team that's going to take you, your work and move it forward.
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And then you can start part time.
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But if you're really going to start, you've got to really put in a chunk of time into
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it.
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And I know this is a place at which I feel like I'm losing people.
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They're like, well, I can't do it.
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I have a full time clinical job.
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I can't do it.
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Yes, you can.
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The question is not can you or can't you.
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The question is how can you?
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How can you push for protected time?
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What will it take?
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OK, you're 100% clinician today or maybe you're 80% clinician today.
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How can you shrink some of your clinical footprint so that in your 80% job, you find 20% of that
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time for research?
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How can you do it?
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How can your unruly Monday clinic be tamed?
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And you're like, oh, no, no, no.
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The Monday clinic is awful.
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It can never be tamed.
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How can it happen?
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What kind of support do you need in the clinic so that it frees you up to do the other full
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time job?
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What kind of support do you need?
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Are you making all your own appointments?
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What kind of support can you negotiate for so that you're not spending time calling your
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own appointments?
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Are you doing your own prior authorizations?
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What kind of support can you negotiate for so you're not spending time listening to music
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on the phone?
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And what you start to do is you start to build just a little seed of protected time for yourself
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because the first person who's going to gift you protected time is you.
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And then you can go asking for more.
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You're like, this is the space of protected time I've created.
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This is what that space has created for me in the realm of research.
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And then you take that as evidence to go ask for more protected time.
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But you've got to push for protected time.
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First, nobody is going to push for protected time like you are because the reason you're
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pushing is because you're going to make it time that's productive.
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And that allows people to really advocate for you.
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OK, push for protected time.
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Number four, assemble your team.
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OK, you're not going to do this by yourself.
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Nobody ever does research by themselves.
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They don't, right?
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We build on the work that other people have done.
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And we have people help us move our work forward.
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Anybody who can do research by themselves is not doing research that's going to make
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any kind of impact.
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I mean, it's just the reality.
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If you can do your research in a broom closet by yourself in the corner of your house, it'll
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be great research, I'm sure.
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But it's probably not going to impact very many people.
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OK, so if you are going to really make impact, and I know that the reason you came to research
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was not just so you could say I pipetted a couple of samples.
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It's because you want to lead a question.
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You want to answer a question that's important to you, that's important to your patients.
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For that reason, you're going to need a team.
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What will it take?
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OK, you're like, well, I don't have funding for a team.
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I guess I can't do it.
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No.
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Who do you already have?
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If you're a clinician researcher, there are three teams that you need.
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Number one, you need your home team.
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OK, some of you are lucky and you have a partner that just takes care of the home front.
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Good for you.
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And some of you are lucky and you don't have a partner that takes care of the home front.
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Either way, you're lucky.
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You're lucky that you have opportunities to create a team that helps you take care of
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the home front.
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What are the things you need?
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You need your groceries done.
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You need your shopping done.
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You need your laundry done.
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What do you need?
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And who's the team that's supporting you to do that?
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Oh, I see some people rolling their eyes.
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I'm like, I don't have a team.
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Well, what an opportunity.
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What an opportunity for you to create a team.
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And no, it doesn't mean you have to pay a concierge person to like run around your house
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doing groceries and in your shopping and cleaning up after you.
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But if you can't afford that, you should go for it.
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But who is your team?
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I'll tell you some of my team.
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My team is Amazon, Amazon Prime.
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My team consists of Walmart, you know, where you pick up your groceries at the door.
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My team also consists of Food Lion.
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And I have other team members.
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I can't remember them all right now.
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But who are the people who make life easy for you and it doesn't have to be a discrete
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person.
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It could just be a company and the services they provide that offload you.
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Yes, they're part of your home team.
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You want to make sure you assemble them so that they resource you.
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And you're not spending time doing things that other people can do for you.
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Okay, that's your home team.
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And then what about your clinical team?
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Okay.
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If you are still rooming your own patients, then that's a problem.
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It's a problem for you and it's a problem for your institution because I tell you that
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the clinicians highest value to the institution is not in rooming patients.
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It's just not.
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And if you're doing it, it's a sign that you need support.
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And anything you're doing in the clinical space, you should be maximized and resourced
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to bring in the most clinical revenue for the work you do in the time that you're in
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the clinic.
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Now, if you're a clinician researcher, clinical revenue may not be the most important to you,
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but as long as you're in the clinic seeing patients, well, you better maximize that time.
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Don't just be in the clinic seeing patients and spending all the time on the phone.
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You could be doing something else with that time, right?
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And so how do you maximize the resources you have to create maximum clinical value?
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Ask for those resources.
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Do you need an MA to support you?
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They're like, well, you're only in clinic a half a day a week.
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Well, that's half a day of clinical revenue that I want to generate well.
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And so yes, I need an MA.
371
00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:24,160
And if I can't see three patients because I'm spending the whole day rooming patients,
372
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,360
that's a problem.
373
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:27,720
Help people see the value.
374
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720
They can't see it.
375
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,760
You show them.
376
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,920
Don't say, oh, I'm just in clinic for half a day.
377
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:33,920
It's not that important.
378
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920
I'll just know.
379
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,060
Make it count.
380
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:46,360
And if you can be so efficient as to squeeze five hours worth of patients into three, guess
381
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:50,560
what you could do with the other two, right?
382
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,720
Assemble your team in the clinic.
383
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,720
Don't schedule your own patients.
384
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040
Don't schedule your own appointments.
385
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Don't.
386
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,720
And in fact, if you can get an opportunity for somebody else to close your charts for
387
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,720
you to write your note, do it.
388
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,240
Like, oh, I don't want to scribe because it might mean I have to see three more patients.
389
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280
You need to figure out the math.
390
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,200
How much does it cost for the three patients that you cannot add to the schedule?
391
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,360
How much would it bring?
392
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,680
How much revenue would it bring?
393
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,740
And how much would it cost for a scribe to come and see those and help you see those
394
00:20:21,740 --> 00:20:25,440
three patients and close all your charts on time?
395
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,400
And I know everyone's having different conversations about whether scribes are not scribes.
396
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:30,760
It doesn't have to be a scribe.
397
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,520
What helps you be efficient in the clinic?
398
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,400
Assemble the team.
399
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:36,400
Negotiate the team.
400
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:37,400
They may already exist.
401
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:38,580
You're already working with them.
402
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:40,620
How do you make the most out of them?
403
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:44,840
Some of you are so disenchanted with your MAs, you don't even allow them to work for
404
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,840
you.
405
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,900
You keep doing their work.
406
00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:51,800
How can they grow and expand if you keep doing the work of your MA?
407
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,520
How can you coach your MA to help you be better?
408
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,440
Or how can you negotiate for a different MA?
409
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,820
Assemble your team.
410
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:04,600
If you're a scientist, the science part of you needs a team.
411
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:10,240
Please, don't be the person who's proposing the research, who's writing the research
412
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,200
grants, who's submitting the research grants and doing the revision, and also be the one
413
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,040
who's generating all the data and analyzing all the data and doing your own biostatistics
414
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,160
and writing your own first draft.
415
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,640
Don't be that person because you know what?
416
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,240
You can't do it all well.
417
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,760
You're the leader of a research program.
418
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,200
You should have a team to support you.
419
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,280
Okay, you may not have the finances yet, but oh my goodness, there are all these medical
420
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,880
students and residents looking for a job.
421
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,800
They're like wanting to succeed in research.
422
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,800
And there you are with all this clinical expertise and experience.
423
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,480
Assemble them as part of your team.
424
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,480
Give them work to do.
425
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,920
You're like, oh, it's too hard.
426
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,400
It's too hard to train them.
427
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,400
Okay?
428
00:21:50,400 --> 00:22:00,880
What you're going to do is recognize that anybody who is in the medical space, medical
429
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,680
students, residents, are high achieving people.
430
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,920
They can learn things fast.
431
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,880
You only have to teach them once or twice and then they can run.
432
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,320
As long as you can align what they need with what you need, they need a paper, a first
433
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,480
author paper.
434
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,480
You're looking to lead a research program, make it worth their while.
435
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,520
Give it to them, help them run with it.
436
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,520
Assemble your team.
437
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,820
Okay, number five, find seed funding.
438
00:22:24,820 --> 00:22:26,000
You need money for this team.
439
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,760
Okay, you can get a volunteer team.
440
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,380
Absolutely you can.
441
00:22:29,380 --> 00:22:33,100
If you're leading a clinical research program, you can get the medical student who's available
442
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:39,040
for maybe summers or you can get the resident who is going to on their own time do research
443
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,200
with you.
444
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
You might get the fellow who says you're the best person ever.
445
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,420
I want to work with you.
446
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:49,720
But you are actually needing people that are paid to do your work.
447
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:50,720
You do.
448
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:54,880
You need the people who are like you give me a paycheck, I do your work.
449
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,440
So you got to find seed funding.
450
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:57,440
You do.
451
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,320
And all you need is a little bit of funding to start.
452
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,320
That's it.
453
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,320
Just a little bit.
454
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,440
And the best place to look for that usually is at your institution.
455
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,440
There are all these seed funding things that they're talking about because they want clinicians
456
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,120
to be involved in research.
457
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,720
Or maybe it's your society, right?
458
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,280
There are all these things that your society is recommending, you know, touting as like
459
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,200
oh please apply for these funds.
460
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,960
Just get a little bit.
461
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,160
Because the seed, seed is all that's needed.
462
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,560
And the moment the seed is planted in the ground, look at what it creates.
463
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,720
A forest of trees.
464
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,880
Just a couple of seeds.
465
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,360
A forest of trees.
466
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:36,640
One seed, multiple fruit.
467
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:42,000
Because the moment you get just a little bit of funding, someone has voted with cash to
468
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,960
give you money to do something.
469
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,320
Then you're going to expand it.
470
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,800
And how are you going to expand it?
471
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,400
You're going to water it, you're going to make it grow.
472
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,960
You're going to make that seed birth something, right?
473
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,960
You're going to produce from it.
474
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240
And then you're going to say look at what this seed did.
475
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,680
And somebody else is going to be like what?
476
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:58,680
Look at what that seed did.
477
00:23:58,680 --> 00:23:59,960
And if they don't, you're going to show them.
478
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,000
You're going to say hey, look at what this seed did.
479
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,360
You want to put more where this seed went?
480
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,360
You want to supply more?
481
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,360
Right?
482
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:12,320
You're going to use what you've created through the seed funding that you have to advocate
483
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,320
for more.
484
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:14,520
It always starts with a seed.
485
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,040
It doesn't start with a big grant.
486
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:17,480
It always starts with a small grant.
487
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,320
And the small grant leads to the next grant leads to the next grant.
488
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,560
And in life, people are biased.
489
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,380
Bias towards the person who can get funding.
490
00:24:24,380 --> 00:24:27,960
And so if you've gotten any funding, even the slightest bit of funding, you've already
491
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,400
voted for yourself as someone who can get more funding.
492
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,200
So just go off and find the first seed.
493
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,000
It doesn't have to be a big seed.
494
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,480
It does need to be a small seed.
495
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:36,480
A seed.
496
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,400
It's just got to be a seed.
497
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,840
And so you create that seed.
498
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Use it.
499
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,280
You find the seed.
500
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:44,280
You plant it.
501
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,400
You grow something.
502
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,400
You produce.
503
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:47,920
You show everybody what you've produced.
504
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,960
And then you can use that to now grow more funding for your program.
505
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:59,200
Because your ultimate goal is to be the leader of the program, not the one working in it.
506
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,800
And have people to help you work in it.
507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,800
All right.
508
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,120
Number six is be patient.
509
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,760
Be patient.
510
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:05,760
Really.
511
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,960
You're just starting.
512
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,240
Don't compare yourself with people who've been doing this for years and years.
513
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,520
Don't compare yourself with people who started, you know, in kindergarten to do research because
514
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,520
their mother was a scientist.
515
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,520
Don't.
516
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Don't compare yourself.
517
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,020
Be patient with yourself.
518
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:22,800
And show yourself compassion.
519
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,640
Show yourself compassion.
520
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,420
The reason you started this research thing late in the game, so to speak, is because
521
00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:32,080
you had a desire to see something be solved.
522
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,560
You had a desire to solve a problem.
523
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,520
That problem is still important.
524
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,920
And even when it's slow going, even when it looks like no one's supporting you, be patient
525
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,400
with yourself.
526
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,080
You're going to make amazing things happen.
527
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,680
But good things only come to people who are patient.
528
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,120
So be patient.
529
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:53,720
Number seven, get the help you need.
530
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,720
This is hard.
531
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,980
If you're going to build a research program, it takes help.
532
00:25:56,980 --> 00:25:57,980
It takes help.
533
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:59,120
Some people have great mentors.
534
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,120
Most people do not.
535
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,840
Can I say that again?
536
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,020
Most people don't have great mentors.
537
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:05,020
Most people do not.
538
00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:08,880
And just so you don't have a great mentor doesn't mean you're not going to succeed.
539
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,840
But get the help you need.
540
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840
Who do you need?
541
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,840
You're like, well, I can't find a mentor.
542
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:13,840
I guess I quit.
543
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,840
No.
544
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,360
You need more than just a mentor.
545
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:17,680
You need many mentors.
546
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,280
Which mentor are you missing?
547
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,800
Which mentoring category are you missing?
548
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,600
OK, maybe you don't have a research mentor.
549
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,280
But if your institution has any researchers in it, then you have options.
550
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,960
Which one is going to be the best for you?
551
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,320
What are they going to give you that you don't already have?
552
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,520
Don't wait for one person to give you everything you need.
553
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:42,560
Take what they can give you and then go find the next thing from the next person.
554
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,760
Have a cadre of mentors.
555
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,620
And you may not even need a mentor to learn some of the things you need.
556
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:50,440
For example, this podcast says here's a resource for you.
557
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,440
I'm not your mentor, but you can learn a lot from this space.
558
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,560
So get the help you need.
559
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,940
Don't sit back and hope for the best.
560
00:27:00,940 --> 00:27:03,400
Get the help you need.
561
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,200
With these seven things, number one, owning your strength, your clinical expertise, your
562
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,200
experience.
563
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,480
Number two, evaluating your need.
564
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,640
Number three, pushing for protected time.
565
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Number four, assembling your team.
566
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,400
Number five, finding seed funding.
567
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,760
Number six, being patient.
568
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,400
Number seven, getting the help you need.
569
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,000
These are seven things that are important to help you build a research program.
570
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,080
And it's never too late to do that.
571
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:33,700
One thing I want to add at the end of all of this is that the who matters so much.
572
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,080
You've never done research before, but there are other people who have.
573
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,880
And so you should seek them out to help you on your journey.
574
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
And you should actually think about partnering with them.
575
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,760
Maybe you're going to be just a clinical expert and they're going to be the research expert.
576
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,200
And together you're going to make a dynamite combo.
577
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,720
It is going to be so good.
578
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,000
It is never too late to build a research program.
579
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,760
And I hope that you will believe that and that you will go out this week and start asking,
580
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,680
how can I push for protected time?
581
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,920
What do I need?
582
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,440
I want you to start asking these questions and I want you to take a look at what you
583
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,520
already have, what you already have and what you already have can create.
584
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,560
And then I want you to start pushing for what you need.
585
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,320
Start grabbing what you need.
586
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,360
Start reaching out to people who have what you need.
587
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,680
I want you to believe in your power to make it happen.
588
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:30,680
All right.
589
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,120
If this episode has been helpful to you, you got to share it.
590
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:39,040
Please choose just one person who wants to do research, but feels like it's too late
591
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:40,040
for me.
592
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Just one person, please.
593
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240
And share this episode with them.
594
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,240
All right.
595
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,520
It's been a pleasure to talk with you today.
596
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:58,760
I look forward to talking with you again the next time.
597
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,080
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast, where academic
598
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,560
clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they
599
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:10,900
have a mentor.
600
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:17,000
If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself.
601
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,760
No one else needs to hear it.
602
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,800
So take a minute right now and share it.
603
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,280
As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation
604
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:48,320
of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.
