When you should not negotiate

0:00 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research program. Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

0:40 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is such a pleasure to be talking with you this day. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for listening. I'm talking today about when not to negotiate. I'm talking about when not to negotiate.

1:20 And I want to say that, you know, there are very few reasons why you shouldn't negotiate. You shouldn't negotiate everything. Even if you hate the job, you're on your way out. You're like, I can't stand this place anymore. As long as you're still there. Even if there are just a few more months left to your exit, you should still negotiate. And the reason you negotiate is to make it better for yourself. As long as you are still in a location, you should tailor it to you to the best of your ability. And I think there are so many reasons to negotiate. You should negotiate because the more you enjoy the job, the better you do in the job and the more people enjoy you in that position.

2:01 If you are sad and miserable, people can tell they don't like you in the position. You don't like yourself in the position. So to be honest, you negotiate for you and for everybody around you. You negotiate so that everybody can enjoy you in the role in which you are. And it's important for you to negotiate because your goal is to tailor your career to meet your needs and to serve your purposes. And yes, there might be some give and take, but really you're creating and crafting a career that's for you. And many times people are like, well, don't be selfish. And I'm not sure where that comes from, because if you are not thriving, then nobody wins.

2:44 And so in a sense, it's like if being selfish means that one, you enjoy your career, two, the people around you enjoy the fact that you are thriving in your career and your patients win, then maybe you should be selfish. But if being unselfish means that you hate the work you're doing, people think you're miserable and cynical and your patients just don't understand why this doctor is so cynical, then unselfish may not be the way to go. And I really recommend negotiating everything because sometimes we have the sense that nobody will do what we think we want them to do for us, but they don't know.

3:27 Because they don't know they can't act to meet our needs. And when we don't ask, then we don't get what we don't ask for and we're miserable. And usually when we don't ask and we don't get what we don't ask for, we're upset at the people who didn't give it to us. It's like, well, why should they be in your minds and how can they be in your minds to know exactly what you want? And everybody doesn't want the same thing. So sometimes there's a sense we have that, well, if I asked for this, then what if everybody asked for it? Well, everybody is not asking for it. Is it what you need? Well, go for it. You should go for what you need. Because if there is one thing that makes you unhappy and you can fix it, and usually it's not that big a deal to fix it, then you should definitely go for it.

4:19 Okay, so I was talking about all the reasons you should negotiate, but this particular episode is really about why situations you get into where you should think about not negotiating, you should actually walk away. And I'm here to talk about five reasons why you shouldn't negotiate. And I will say that I've been in a situation at work once where I think it wasn't that I wasn't going to negotiate anymore. It was that negotiating for years had not helped me move forward in the way I wanted to move forward. And I think I finally got to a place where I recognized that, hmm, this environment is not going to help me move forward.

5:01 And then it was time to stop negotiating the environment. And it was time instead to actually move on to a different environment. So anyway, so I'm going to talk about five reasons when not to negotiate a job, when not to negotiate a situation. And the very first one is when the only benefit you see is monetary. When all that is attractive to you about the position is the money. And the only thing you can think of is that, well, the pay is good, exactly in that way, where you're like, oh, well, I guess the pay is good. Or when you were like, no, I don't want this position.

5:43 I don't want this job. And then they increased the amount by like $50,000. And you're like, well, I didn't want it. But at $50,000 more, maybe. But the only thing that is attractive to you about the role is that there's a boatload of money that comes with it. Think carefully. Think carefully. Because there is really a need to fulfill purpose for us as clinician scientists. There is a need to really make a difference. There's a need to feel like you're contributing in some way.

6:27 And yes, financial need is necessary. And for those of you who are on the road to retiring early, absolutely, you want to make more money. You don't want to spend any more time working than you absolutely need to. But the reality is that money is motivating up to a certain amount. And beyond that, it's demotivating, or it can be. And what really fulfills you in your work is the work you do, the meaning it has, the value it contributes, and how it helps you to actualize yourself, right? To kind of continue on the journey of growth and self-discovery.

7:09 And if the position that's before you doesn't give you any of that, but all it gives you is a couple more zeros, then consider carefully if that's what you want to do. And sometimes I'll hear people saying, well, I'll just go for it and just do it for a little while. I'll take this soul-sucking, soul-crunching job and do it for two years. And then by the end of it, I'll have made so much money. And I think it's important to think about the opportunity cost, the opportunity cost of what else could you be doing if you were not doing this opportunity that only serves you in terms of its monetary gain?

7:52 How much could you accomplish? How much else could you point to that you've done or maybe more family time that you've had or more trips that you've taken if you were not spending two years of your life just making a lot of money? So monetary benefit is important and you should absolutely work for the maximum amount of money you can get for the same amount of work that you do. But if the only benefit you see in the position before you is that, well, the money is good, then you should reconsider. You should reconsider looking for another opportunity. It's your best alternative to a negotiated agreement.

8:37 It's like, walk away. Please walk away. The second thing is along the same lines, if you don't see growth opportunities, I will tell you that one thing that we thrive on as clinicians is growth. And I want to say it's a drug I feel like we've been taking since we were first in medical school. So I don't know if you remember when you crossed over from the position of undergraduate looking to get into medical school to medical school student, right? It was just an amazing crossover. And then all of a sudden it was like someone turned on a fire hose and just started pouring it in your face and saying, drink, drink, drink.

9:18 I mean, it was just a ton of knowledge. But how amazing and gratifying when you finally walked onto the wards and you started caring for patients. Oh my goodness, that was so good. Just how all of a sudden all of that knowledge became something that was actionable and actually allowed you to start to do the thing that you came to medical school to do. And then you got into residency and wow, you went from the sub-I who kind of was doing a good job to really being the doctor. The one that people call doctor, the patient is cutting. It's like all of a sudden it's all on you.

10:01 How exhilarating. And then you move from your intern year and then you start leading a team and you start being the one to tell other interns how to move forward. And you start being the one kind of to take charge. And then you get to your third year of residency and all of a sudden you're leading a team. And whether the attending is there or not, you've got the team. Oh my goodness, it's so awesome. And so what I describe is that throughout your training in medical school, residency and beyond, you continue to expand in a way that's just incredible. You're growing at an alarming rate. It's just the change from year to year is amazing. It's like exponential growth.

10:42 And then you take a job where there are no growth opportunities. Yeah, the money will be good. See number one. But if there's nowhere to grow to, if there's no challenge to take on, then it becomes not a great opportunity for you. And you got to see the growth potential. You can't just say, well, I'll just do this job day in and day out for the next 20 years of my life. As long as the pay is good, I can do it. I will say no, you are someone who's used to growing, who's used to expansion. And it's important for you to continue to seek growth opportunities as you pursue opportunities for your career.

11:23 So if you don't see growth opportunities, don't like the shiny stuff, you know, the perks, the, the passives to the golf club, the golf club. Don't don't take all the stuff. If you don't see opportunities for your own growth within that role. The next thing, number three is when nothing about the position appeals to you. Now this is especially important for my people who just feel the sense of obligation. Well, the work has to be done. If I don't take it, no one's going to take it. If I don't step up to the plate, well, no patients will be taken care of. If I don't show up, nothing will work. And you know, in reality, none of it is true.

12:07 If you don't show up, somebody else will show up. And if nobody shows up, they'll kind of figure out a way to make it work. It's the way we've always done things. And if you're thinking, well, if you don't show up, nobody will take care of the patient. Obviously, there will always be someone to take care of the patient. And you're showing up is great. But if you don't show up, we keep looking until we can find someone who can do that. And so don't ever take a role out of obligation. Don't negotiate a role that you don't want. The moment you get into a situation, you're like, no, no, definitely not for me. Don't say, well, if I don't take it, nobody else will. I really, I really got to do this for the patients. And I love that we are about advancing patient care.

12:50 But it is important to recognize that you've really got to find something appealing about the position. And if you can't, then maybe it's not for you. And it's OK not to negotiate it. It's OK to agree that maybe this is not for me. Now, if you see things that you like and you're like, I wish I could have more of that. But they're not giving me very much of that, that may be an opportunity to negotiate. Because it's like, how can you expand the thing you see that you like? That's an opportunity. But when you see nothing that you like about the role and all you're thinking about is, well, I guess I'll just fulfill my obligation, then you definitely want to pause and ask yourself, should you be negotiating this thing that you don't even like?

13:38 Number four is a close sister of that, when the thought of working in that environment fills you with dread. I don't know if you've ever experienced this. When you've gone to a situation and for whatever reason you can't even put your finger on it, you're like, I'm not sure this place is for me. And there's just this sense of like, uh-uh. And it's different things that might cause you to feel that way. I will tell you, I had one experience that was kind of interesting. I was doing an interview and as part of interview day, you got a picture made of it, a picture made of you and that was your name badge, which is kind of cool. It's automated. And anyway, so I went to this place and I stood in line to take my picture.

14:21 And I kid you not, I kid you not, when the picture came out, I was smiling and all you could see were my teeth. So I don't know what was happening with the exposure of the picture, what the picture was set to, but the woman looked at the picture. She was like, oh great. And she slapped the badge on me. And I looked at it and I have to tell you that that wasn't the reason I didn't want to go to that place. But I tell you that it told me something I couldn't put my finger on. I was like, how did you just take a picture of me? The exposure is so bad, you actually can't even make out my features. You can only make out my teeth. And you looked at that and you said, yeah, this is great. You should take this badge.

15:02 And maybe in that moment I should have said, hey, can we take another picture so you can see me? I think what it said to me was that it didn't matter. Is that this thing that was important to me because it's got my facial features on it, right? And I'm wearing it all about for this whole interview day. It was so not important. And then what was the point of doing it at all? So immediately I just had the sense that something was wrong. You know when you can't put your finger on it? But there's this sense of like, no, no, definitely no. I mean, it's a very funny thing.

15:43 It was my first experience of that day. And I remember feeling this place, it's not for me. Anyway, so if you have dread, for whatever reason, you can't put your finger on it, you're not sure. That's just the sense of like, this is a great place. I should love it, but I don't love it. Pay attention to that. Don't negotiate it. Just pay attention to it. The fifth is kind of similar. The fifth has to do with when you have the feeling in your gut that all is not well. There's just this feeling and maybe it's kind of like a brother to them before. There's this feeling that you have that this is not okay.

16:24 And you can't place it. You're like, well, I should love this program director. I should love the people around me. I should love the division chief. I should love my colleagues, but somehow they can't put my finger on what bothers me here. And I want to say that the reason you really want to pay attention to that is because honestly, as clinicians, as physicians, if our training was any good, there's a big disconnect between how we feel, what we really want, and the situation that is in front of us. Because we're very used to kind of sacrificing and putting other people ahead of us and just maintaining obligations. And so whenever we catch this feeling of something is off somewhere, we really do need to pay attention to that and sit with it and try to answer the question of why that is.

17:11 Don't say, well, let me just try to work this, request this that will make it better. Because what's going to happen over time is that whatever is holding you back is in your subconscious mind. And over time, it's going to become very clear to you what that thing is. And then you really wish you had listened. And it's okay. It's okay if that happens to you because ultimately, it's never too late to change your mind and do the right thing. It's never too late. But if you have, if you have a feeling in your gut that something is off here, and you definitely want to make sure that you pay attention to that, don't just keep the negotiation going, but you want to pause and make sure that you clarify any feelings that need to be addressed.

17:54 All right. So those are five reasons when not to negotiate. Number one is when the only benefit you can see is monetary. It doesn't matter how much money they give you. If it's not, if there's no other benefit other than money, it's not going to be the place for you. Number two, when you don't see growth opportunities, you're a person who is used to growing and expanding and anything less, anything short will frustrate you in your job. And so if you don't see growth opportunities, don't even negotiate it. There's nothing else that really will stimulate you about your work if there's no growth opportunity. Number three is when there's nothing about the position that appeals to you, you just can't find a thing to say, wow, this is for me.

18:39 Don't negotiate that. When the thought of working in the environment fills you with dread, when the thought of working in the environment fills you with dread, you know it's time to not negotiate. And finally, when you have the feeling in your gut that all is not well, something is wrong here and you want to pay attention to any feelings you have and don't just say, oh, suck it up. Actually pause and sit with it and ask yourself, what is it about this place that makes me feel the way I do and recognize that you don't have to negotiate. You can walk away and you will land on your feet because as a physician you are highly trained.

19:20 You've got a lot of other skills that you can use even if this one position doesn't work out exactly as it's supposed to. All right. So I want to just remind you that abundance is a thing that we have that's all around us. It's not scarcity, it's abundance. And I would encourage you to just fill your mind with just the recognition that if this particular opportunity before you is not for you, that's okay. Another opportunity will open up that has your name on it. All right. It's been a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you for listening. I look forward to talking with you again the next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher Podcast where academic clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program whether or not they have a mentor.

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