Why you should pursue outside interests beyond your career in medicine

0:00 Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. As clinicians, we spend a decade or more as trainees learning to take care of patients. When we finally start our careers, we want to build research programs, but then we find that our years of clinical training did not adequately prepare us to lead our research program. Through no fault of our own, we struggle to find mentors, and when we can't, we quit. However, clinicians hold the keys to the greatest research breakthroughs.

0:40 For this reason, the Clinician Researcher podcast exists to give academic clinicians the tools to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. Now introducing your host, Toyosi Onwuemene. Welcome to the Clinician Researcher podcast. I'm your host, Toyosi Onwuemene, and it is an absolute pleasure to be talking with you today. Thank you so much for tuning in. I want to say excited about today's topic, and I would say maybe rather than excited today, I'm a little subdued. It's an exciting topic under normal circumstances, but today it is a topic that I come to with just a sense of realization of kind of the finiteness of our experience.

1:36 And you know, I will share that I recently got an unexpected email. This was one of those widespread campus messages about one of our faculty members who, you know, ended her journey, which is a nice way of saying that she died. And you know what? Caused me to pause. And you know, this is a faculty member within my department, and she's someone I knew and interacted with. And I didn't know her personally, and so I didn't know what was going on with her recently. But it definitely made me pause and remember that, wow, there is so much more to this journey beyond the work that we do.

2:22 And we are not guaranteed a career that's 40, 50 years long. We're not. And so if for whatever reason we found out that the journey that we have embarked on has an end in the near future, how would we behave differently? And so that's where I come from with regard to this episode, which is talking to you about how and why you should create space for your outside interests. It's just the recognition that the journey is the gift. It's not the end of the journey. It's not the career celebration or the retirement celebration 40 years down the road. It's today.

3:03 And if for whatever reason we are not enjoying our careers today, then we've kind of missed out on the most important point. Many times we're chasing things. We're chasing papers and we're chasing publications and we're chasing grants and we're chasing funding. We're chasing recognition. And all of that is fine as long as we're enjoying the chase, as long as the chase is part of the fun and not the reward at the end of the chase, which, you know, honestly is elusive or you catch it and then there's another reward that you have to pursue. And so that's what sits on my mind today as I share this episode, which is important about creating space for your outside interests and why it's important to do that.

3:51 And the first thing I will share, which I think you already know, is that this journey is a marathon. It's not a sprint. When we first started on this journey towards medicine, for some of us that means that we did an undergraduate degree and then from undergraduate we went to medical school and after medical school we did graduate medical education, whether that was for three years in residency or more or in fellowship. We have been on this journey where, you know, we've to some extent we've done it in sprints though when you look back over the whole journey, it's been one long marathon.

4:36 In finishing med school, that was one part of the sprint and finishing residency, that was another part of the sprint. And for those of us who did fellowship and finishing fellowship, it feels like that was another part of the sprint. And you could call it a sprint maybe because at least those were like four year and three year spurts or maybe it was five years. But overall, when you put it all together, we've been running a long time and overall it really is long, 10 years of training before you even start in your faculty career and all of it counts by the way, it is a long trip. And if you do have 30, 40 years ahead of you, that's a long, long trip.

5:20 And so recognizing that you've got so much further to go than where you started helps you recognize that well if you're going to finish well, you're going to have to pace yourself along the journey. You're going to have to be measured to your approach and you're not going to want to try to do everything all at once or try to accomplish everything all at once or beat yourself up time after time after time. Because honestly, wow, it's a long journey. We've got so much, so much that's going to be accomplished over the course of a long career. And so because we recognize that this journey takes a long time and that we are really, if we're going to do it well, we're going to pace ourselves in the same way as you would for a marathon, then you recognize that you're not sprinting and you shouldn't be sprinting.

6:14 Because when you sprint, you burn up a lot of energy very quickly, you get tired very quickly. You can only do that for so long before you burn out or pull a muscle or something. But if you're going to run a marathon, you train and you run in bursts. Now, have I, actually I was going to say, have I run a marathon? The answer is yes, I have. It's kind of like it was a non-traditional marathon. I'll have to save that story for later, but I definitely did. Actually, I'll tell you the story is that it was during the pandemic and I had this goal to run a marathon before my 40th birthday and I had taken to, this was at the very beginning of the pandemic, running in the house.

7:00 So I would just run back and forth and I would log a few miles with my running back and forth. And eventually one day I thought, you know what, I'm going to keep running back and forth until I've done 26 miles. And I really did do it. And it was interesting. I don't say it's the same as running a marathon where you're running outside and there are others around you. But it was one of those things that I did know, it's like, you know what, I logged these miles and I did it for hours. I forget how many hours, it was probably over five hours. So it wasn't even a fast marathon, even though it was by myself in the house. But one of the reasons I share the story is because, I mean, I'm a runner and I do run outside and I do run indoors.

7:43 And the pandemic was one way that I could keep the pandemic running and the way I was running indoors was one way that I could be gone for long periods of time running and still be indoors with the kids who were homeschooling. So it was kind of strategic because I couldn't be gone for long hours running. I needed to be home for them. And so it was one strategy that I used. So anyway, I say all that to say that if you're going to run a long, long distance, you do want to build up to it. And it's important to recognize that these careers are long, long, long, long, long, long journeys.

8:23 And for that reason, you don't wait until the end of this long journey to create space for your outside interests. Please don't wait till you retire. Something you want to do right now alongside your trip, alongside your journey. And for many of us, I think that we do a good job of not necessarily deferring all our hopes and dreams till the very end. After 10 years of training, and then some being in faculty on faculty, you suddenly realize you're like, wait a minute, what am I saving all this for? This keeps going. And so just recognizing that you should create space for your outside interests because this journey is a marathon. It is not a sprint. All right.

9:05 The second thing I want to share is your identity extends beyond your career. This has always been true. It's always been true. But what happens when we come into medicine is that medicine is all consuming. Wow, it takes up so much time, so much energy. It feels as if there was nothing before medicine. It feels as if medicine is all there is. And it really is all consuming. It just takes up so much time and energy. Your friends are in medicine, your colleagues are in medicine, your daytime hours are spent in medicine, and your nighttime hours consumed by medicine. Wow, it's a lot of medicine.

9:45 And so to no one's surprise, when some of us feel like medicine is our whole identity, it's a big deal. And it's not uncommon because, wow, for something that takes up so much time all the time and doesn't really have limits, you can be on call and be patient at nighttime. Your sleep is not sacred. And it can make people feel so wrapped up in the identity of being a physician. And as you make the transition to lead a research program, it's the same thing where it feels like you're always writing grants, you're always submitting manuscripts. It just feels like you're kind of on this what sometimes can feel like a hamster wheel of this career.

10:29 But the reality is that way, way, way before we came into medicine, we had other identities. We were real people. We had other interests. And even if we went from medical school, I mean, from undergraduate straight into medical school, straight into residency, straight into fellowship without any breaks, no matter how young we were when we started, we had identities outside of medicine. And so for medicine to become all that we do for our careers in clinic and clinical things and in research to become all that we do, it's kind of a false, it's a false reality because there's so much to us.

11:14 There has always been and there always will be. And as much as medicine means so much to us, if it all ended today, we would continue because we have so many skills we've amassed that are relevant in other areas and other spheres of our lives. And so the reason why you should create space for your outside interests, at least one of the reasons, is that your identity extends beyond your career. And so there should be more to us. There is more to us beyond our careers. And we should give space and attention to those things. Now once upon a time, I couldn't read books that were not medical because I felt like I was inadequate in my fund of knowledge and I needed to keep reading more.

11:59 And any deviation from reading medical textbooks or journal articles felt like I was doing the wrong thing. And so there's a part of our training that makes us feel that we constantly have to strive to be more, do more, get more experience, be more excellent. And the journey and the striving for excellence is good as long as we recognize that there's got to be space. There's got to be space for other things beyond our careers. And it's great that we invest time in being more excellent and that we also leave space for the things that matter, the things that make us whole, the things that make us who we are.

12:41 The third reason that I want to share is that we've lost great friends along the way. We've lost a few. And now I feel like goodness. We've lost more than a few. And I'm not here to make anybody sad or to ruminate on all the people I know personally who passed away this year, but just recognizing that there are people we didn't think were dying who did. There are people we didn't know were sick who died. There are many people that we're surprised by whose journeys have come to an end faster than we expected them to.

13:24 And we have no guarantees as to how long we get to be here, how much longer we get to continue to contribute. And for that reason, it's important for us to recognize that if the journey ends today, are we ready? Like, have we done all that we wanted to do? Are we satisfied with the experience that we've had? And if for whatever reason there is a sense of like, oh my goodness, I haven't done all the things I wanted to do, that's a sign. It's a sign that you should pay attention to those things that you want to do. Because the reality, which is made so much more stark when somebody dies unexpectedly, is that tomorrow is not promised.

14:11 Tomorrow is not promised. Today is the present. It is the gift that we have to live. And we should make today count. Part of making today count is looking at our experience, like our global experience, and recognizing that we have opportunities to make up relationships or build new relationships or mend old relationships and move forward with projects that have excited us or encouraged us or inspired us for so long. And so, one reason to create space for our outside interests is that we have no guarantees as to the duration of this journey.

14:58 And for that reason, we should make sure that every moment counts to the best of our ability. The fourth reason that I have to share is that your experiences outside of medicine actually make for greater contributions within medicine. Your experiences outside of medicine make for greater contributions within medicine. Because one of the things you recognize about innovation is that innovation is frequently not making something new, but applying something that's already used in a different area to a new area. And the reality of our experience is that outside of medicine, there's so much innovation that doesn't look like innovation until we bring it into medicine.

15:47 And so much of that is happening. It's unfolding. But it helps us be better. It helps us think better. It helps us communicate better. It helps us think broader. And that's why it's so amazing to have collaborations and colleagues outside of our field, because every time we interact with people or experience people in different spheres of life or they do different things, they're in different situations work-wise, financially, it changes the way we think about our experience. And so the reality of making space for our interests outside of medicine is that, wow, it makes our experience so much richer.

16:34 It makes it so much richer. It really enhances our experience. It doesn't diminish our experience in medicine. It actually enhances it. And so you should create space for your outside interests because it really makes for a greater contribution within medicine. You're so much the richer because of all the things that you've experienced outside of medicine. The other thing is that having friends outside of your field makes you richer. I mean that in every way. I mean financially. I mean experience-wise.

17:14 I mean, I just mean richer in every way that you can imagine richer because, you know, let's face it. At least when you start out in medicine, you mostly start out in the negative because you're probably more in debt than you have assets. Over time, as a clinician, given enough time, earning your income staying constant, well actually hopefully increasing over time, you start to be able to build financial wealth. You start to be able to build financial wealth. And I say financial wealth because wealth is more than just finances. There's so much more to wealth than just finances. But financially, you start to build wealth. And so the longer you're in medicine, yeah, definitely the longer you can build wealth if you choose to.

17:59 It's always a choice. But there are people outside of medicine who don't have your physician's income who've been building wealth from a long time ago. And they have much to teach us. And there are people who have different experiences with the way they buy or accumulate assets that helps them be financially independent early that we have so much to learn from. But we can only learn from them if we're actually in contact with them or have access to them in some ways. So yes, you can learn from your financial advisor, whoever it is you work with for finances. But when you have colleagues who are doing interesting things that are helping them kind of grow financially, it's interesting because you're like, oh, well, they can do that.

18:43 Or they're investing in XYZ and succeeding. I should consider that. And so having interests outside your field actually connects you with friends that make your experience richer. They challenge you to new ideas. They challenge you to new thoughts that allow your life to grow. So not necessarily now your life within medicine, but your life outside of medicine so that you have a bigger experience, a more expansive experience. It is overall a richer experience. And so it kind of feels similar to number four. You know, I talked about your experience outside of medicine makes for greater contributions within medicine. But what I'm really talking about now is how your experiences outside of medicine make for a greater life outside of medicine that just make you richer because you're so much fuller.

19:28 You've got so much that you are excited about, looking forward to, can talk about, can share about and you just are able to kind of grow in different ways. And so definitely a great space for your outside interests because it makes you richer financially in relationships and in so many other ways. Those are the five reasons that I wanted to share today about creating space for your outside interests. And I'm just going to summarize them again. This journey is a marathon and not a sprint. And so because it's going to take so long to run, you should take it easy and you should figure out how to enjoy the process and not just wait until the end of the destination, which for some of us could be so, so far away, but for some of us maybe it's not that far away.

20:18 Number two is that your identity extends beyond your career. You had an identity outside of medicine before medicine and you will always have an identity outside of medicine even if medicine ends today. But don't wait until medicine leaves yours, taken from you for whatever reason, retirement, you know, whatever reason. Don't wait. Just recognize that, hey, you've always had an identity outside of medicine and you can come back to experience your fuller identity beyond medicine any time you choose. Number three is that we've lost some great friends along the way. And that reminds us that this journey is finite and are we really making the most of the experience that we're having today?

21:02 Number four is that your experience makes for greater contributions within medicine. And so you go, you get ideas, so you come and you make your experience richer. And then number five is that having experiences gives you friends outside your field and that makes you richer in areas other than medicine as well. So those are five reasons why you should create space for your outside interests. And I'm curious to know what are some outside interests that you have had that have made your experience as a physician richer, have enhanced your experience as a clinician scientist or whatever other ways in which they have enhanced your career? I would love to hear about it. If you have something weird like my indoor marathon running, definitely, definitely come talk to me about it.

21:48 I would love to hear, hear about it. Send me a DM on Facebook or Instagram or even on LinkedIn. I would love to hear from you. All right. It's been a pleasure talking with you today. I invite you to think about your life and think about all that you've jumped through, all the hoops you've jumped through up until now and to ask, are you enjoying your journey? And if you're not, ask how can you enjoy the journey today? Not tomorrow when you finally get that award or when you finally get that grant. Not tomorrow, but today. How can you enjoy the journey today? All right. It's been a pleasure talking with you today. I look forward to talking with you again the next time.

22:35 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Clinician Researcher podcast, where academic clinicians learn the skills to build their own research program, whether or not they have a mentor. If you found the information in this episode to be helpful, don't keep it all to yourself. Someone else needs to hear it. So take a minute right now and share it. As you share this episode, you become part of our mission to help launch a new generation of clinician researchers who make transformative discoveries that change the way we do healthcare.